Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Al Schmelz

New York State Pavilion Tile Restoration

Recommended Posts

Fortunately I was able to get to the Queens Museum today and not only did I get to see the restored tiles but two very friendly women from the University of Pennsylvania were there restoring tiles and discussing and showing how the work is being done.

Also some of the history was discussed including how the company that did the tiles is still in business and that the owner (his father was in charge back in 1964) came down to see the work.

Also, as if I don't hate the oil companies enough, I was told Texaco was asked to contribute to the restoration, but declined.

I will post pictures in the next day or two.

It was great!! If you have the opportunity to get there GO NOW. The display closes on May 4.

Al

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I hate oil companies as much as the next guy, I can see where they might not see the value of restoring a map in a locked up ruin of a building that is likely to be torn or fall down. I hope the NYSP survives, but without a plan the map future would be very questionable even if restored.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I hate oil companies as much as the next guy, I can see where they might not see the value of restoring a map in a locked up ruin of a building that is likely to be torn or fall down. I hope the NYSP survives, but without a plan the map future would be very questionable even if restored.

I disagree. It would be great PR at a time when the oil companies are not very popular. These robber barons continually rob the American public while giving nothing back.

The entire map can't be saved. Far too much of it is gone. The hope is save a good part of it and hopefully have it posted in the Queens Museum or elsewhere as a permanent display, a part of the 1964-65 NY World's Fair. What they have now is quite fascinating, but temporary.

The restored tiles will be saved. They will not be returned to the Tent of Tomorrow but will be stored or displayed elsewhere.

Al

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are the 2 lovely ladies that were working on the tiles. They were very helpful and easy to talk with. Also some photos of the restored tiles.

post-805-1208546275_thumb.jpg

post-805-1208546326_thumb.jpg

post-805-1208546364_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that it would have been nice of them to back this venture, but again can't see trying to save the whole map until someone has a safe place to put it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great shots Al.I was there a few weeks ago with my girlfriend and I can see from your shots that they have made considerable progress since we visited.Any restoration is a step in the right direction no matter how little of the map is left.-Jerry aka SonnyTFox

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great shots Al.I was there a few weeks ago with my girlfriend and I can see from your shots that they have made considerable progress since we visited.Any restoration is a step in the right direction no matter how little of the map is left.-Jerry aka SonnyTFox

I really enjoyed seeing it Jerry. I'm going to try and get there again before May 4.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi All,

am I "misinformed" like Rick ("I came here for the waters...") or are they working on .01 % of the map? And those 4 tiles of 567 are costing $40,000 to restore? Is this really culturally significant? Did I get my numbers wrong?

I was there Wednesday briefly with a renowned designer - he is also involved "with all that" at the Park, has been for decades, was horrified proffessionaly at the condition and he assured me it will be coming down anyway - as the Aquacade was brought down, although probably with less of a struggle from the building.

MB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When Texaco built the map in 1964, oil was selling for $2.92 a barrel. Today oil closed at $116 a barrel. I think they can afford to help preserve the tiles.

Hi All,

am I "misinformed" like Rick ("I came here for the waters...") or are they working on .07 % of the map? And those 4 tiles of 657 are costing $40,000 to restore? Is this really culturally significant? Did I get my numbers wrong?

I was there Wednesday briefly with a reknowned designer - he is also involved "with all that" at the Park, has been for decades, was horrified at the condition and he assured me it will be coming down anyway - as the Aquacade was brought down, although probably with less of a struggle from the building.

MB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Affording it is one thing, contributing to shareholder value is something entirely different.

In 1964 there was a theoretical huge public relations payoff in sponsoring the map. Namely that there were supposed to be zillions of World's Fair visitors who would see it.

Today- where is the payoff? Squirrels and pidgeons don't buy too many barrels of oil.

Now if we could figure out a marketing angle where restoring the map would help reduce greenhouse gases- and make it sound convincing to the general public- THEN we're talking big time public relations payoff. Make it one of those 'carbon trades' that movie stars always want to buy to justify driving their 2 mile a gallon SUV hogs.

"Pay to restore a square of the map, and you get fifty thousand miles of pollution credits".

Now we're talkin'. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Al thanks for posting those photos.

I hate to say it but, to me, it seems they are preserving the tile for a permanent museum exhibit. That, of course, is not good for the future of the NYSP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Taking into account both the state of the NYSP as well as my own current status, I am reminded of something my grandmother always used to say.."You can't go back, only forward". Trying to restore the NYSP to it's 1964 glory is just not going to happen, and truth be told, why would we want it to? Aside from us admirers, not too many people care about 1964. The most practical thing would be to remove the whole map, remove the mezzanine, remove all the stairwells from the towers, then re-invent the place. We already know the great tourism value the towers have. The TOT, once the columns are made structurally sound, is an open slate to ideas. The original map is a sad reminder of the serious neglect NYSP suffered all these years. It belongs in a museum. If the TOT were to be restored, it would need a brand new mezzanine and a brand new Terrazzo floor. Since Texaco disassociates itself from the NYSP,Instead of re-creating a road map that is 45 years out dated, create a new Terrazzo design. It could be a montage of photos from the two NYWFs, it could be a modern map, it could be anything, and it would draw more attention and tourists because it would be unique.Also, Texaco is not the same company it was in 1964. Back then, it was a proud American company that boasted (and rightfully so) great personal service to each individual car that pulled into it's station. (just watch that scene from "Back to the Future", that was Texaco back in the day) Back then you could trust your car to the man who wears the (Texaco) star. Today, you want to back your car over his head for what he charges for a gallon of gas.

I hate to sound cynical. I love the NYSP and the Terrazzo map as much as everyone else here does. Back in 1985, which was the last time I walked the map, it could have been restored. It simply needed some touch up and cleaning and polishing. But now? The map is shot. And if the TOT were to be restored with a new roof and all the trimmings, it would be ghastly and out of place having a restored mess as it's centerpiece. It's best to carefully remove the map, maybe store it in a warehouse until a decision can be made what to do with it, then gut out the entire structure, fix the columns and start from scratch. I know some folks will disagree with me on this opinion, and I respect that. My point is, if the TOT, Towers, and Mezzanine were all to be re-done and look new and colorful again, we would also want new, shiny, smooth flooring to accomodate the events that would take place under the Tent. The old map, even restored like the panels in the QMA, just would not fit in. Plus, all else aside, it would probably cost less simply replicate the original process and make a brand new replica rather than restore the old one. A new floor, be it a replica of the original map or something entirely different, IMHO, is the only way to go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Al thanks for posting those photos.

I hate to say it but, to me, it seems they are preserving the tile for a permanent museum exhibit. That, of course, is not good for the future of the NYSP.

Mary Ellen,

Much of the map is gone. Some of it has been cemented over, other parts have crumbled. They have to do sections. What they have pulled out and are restoring is the Long Island section of the map. If they had more money, they could do more.

I'm fascinated by the defense of the Texaco here. Does anyone think if they donated $100,000 and got some good PR, they would hurt their billions in profits?

I laughed this past week that Exxon/Mobil doing PR commercials with Phil Mickelson on how wonderful they are. Study some of their behavior with regard to Global Warming and how they handled the Exxon Valdez. Exxon/Mobil made $40 billion in profit last year while taking big dollars in government aid for alternate energy development. They have done nothing in alternate energy development. Prices go up because the oil companies play the inventory game. I could go on here but I'll end it by saying we have not built a new refinery in this country since 1973. We have added 100,000,000 people since then.

There is more to life than profits and greed. Amazing that some here don't find any value in restoring the tiles or the NYSP.

This photo was in the display at the Queens Museum of the "future look" after the Queens Theater" is finished.

Al

post-805-1208610474_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi All,

am I "misinformed" like Rick ("I came here for the waters...") or are they working on .01 % of the map? And those 4 tiles of 567 are costing $40,000 to restore? Is this really culturally significant? Did I get my numbers wrong?

I was there Wednesday briefly with a renowned designer - he is also involved "with all that" at the Park, has been for decades, was horrified proffessionaly at the condition and he assured me it will be coming down anyway - as the Aquacade was brought down, although probably with less of a struggle from the building.

MB

"Culturally significant?" Why not knock the NYSP and the Unisphere down and put up some more soccer fields? How's that?

Interesting that the "renowned designer" assured you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Affording it is one thing, contributing to shareholder value is something entirely different.

In 1964 there was a theoretical huge public relations payoff in sponsoring the map. Namely that there were supposed to be zillions of World's Fair visitors who would see it.

Today- where is the payoff? Squirrels and pidgeons don't buy too many barrels of oil.

Now if we could figure out a marketing angle where restoring the map would help reduce greenhouse gases- and make it sound convincing to the general public- THEN we're talking big time public relations payoff. Make it one of those 'carbon trades' that movie stars always want to buy to justify driving their 2 mile a gallon SUV hogs.

"Pay to restore a square of the map, and you get fifty thousand miles of pollution credits".

Now we're talkin'. :P

"Contributing to shareholder value?" That is what this country is reduced to now? No sense of history, of the great architecture of Philip Johnson?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a feeling someone said this more eloquently than I will, and it was probably said as a kick-off to this and the other WF64 associated websites. I just wanted to try and put across my feelings about it in my own way, just in case, just in case no one has yet:

This whole thing is a different type of nostalgia. It's not as simple as letting ephemeral nostalgia go and getting on with the future. To hit at the root of this, I think many of us have our affection for this building, for the map et al because it was presented not only as an exhibition of New York State pride, but it also was a vision of the future. It's vision hasn't quite all happened yet. So the idea of letting all this go to many of us equals letting go of aspects of the future. It's that aspect that makes NYS Pavilion probably the most unique ruin in the world. There is nothing ancient looking about it. It doesn't speak of what was but what was going to be. That's what makes me most sad about it.

I don't neccessarily want it to go back to what it was but to be rehabilitated into what it could be. I think the community owes that to itself, to New York State and to the future. If Texaco doesn't want to be a part of it, f*** 'em. Talk to BP, talk to Hess, hell talk to Chavez' people if you must to get the map restored. lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a feeling someone said this more eloquently than I will, and it was probably said as a kick-off to this and the other WF64 associated websites. I just wanted to try and put across my feelings about it in my own way, just in case, just in case no one has yet:

This whole thing is a different type of nostalgia. It's not as simple as letting ephemeral nostalgia go and getting on with the future. To hit at the root of this, I think many of us have our affection for this building, for the map et al because it was presented not only as an exhibition of New York State pride, but it also was a vision of the future. It's vision hasn't quite all happened yet. So the idea of letting all this go to many of us equals letting go of aspects of the future. It's that aspect that makes NYS Pavilion probably the most unique ruin in the world. There is nothing ancient looking about it. It doesn't speak of what was but what was going to be. That's what makes me most sad about it.

I don't necessarily want it to go back to what it was but to be rehabilitated into what it could be. I think the community owes that to itself, to New York State and to the future. If Texaco doesn't want to be a part of it, f*** 'em. Talk to BP, talk to Hess, hell talk to Chavez' people if you must to get the map restored. lol

Thank you.

There is a great quote from Philip Johnson which I'm looking for. It said that when he drove by the NYSP (in the last 10 years or so) he didn't mind it as a ruin. He still appreciated it. I feel the same way.

If we can restore part of the map that's great. If we can restore part of the NYSP, that's great. History is important.

Many of us come here because of the history and what it still means to us. We appreciate what the 1964-65 Worlds Fair was and hope to keep the memories and what remains in Flushing alive. If we can restore even some small part, it keeps it alive.

It's apparent some are only here to attempt to sell pictures and books.

Al

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's apparent some are only here to attempt to sell pictures and books.

Al

Al, that is not true. Everyone that is here at PTU is here because we share a common interest- The World's Fairs. The folks that you are mentioning above have worked years, YEARS gathering pictures and information on the fairs, not to mention all the hard work restoring the pictures and assembling them into books. Many of us, myself included, have purchased these books and photos and are happy to have them in our collections. In fact, a tremendous amount of these photos have been shared right here on PTU over the years, for free, and these photos have given us all a far deeper perspective of the goings on during the fair than we ever could have achieved elsewhere. I don't know where your anger is coming from, but it is misdirected, and I find your above comment to be as hurtful as if it were directed at me personally.

The Tent of Tomorrow suffers, just like people and society suffer. Perhaps some day it will be restored, or renovated into something more practical, or left to decay, or be demolished, or simply fall down. Life is a game of cards, and we, along with the Tent, have no clue what we are going to be dealt in the future. How we play the cards is how we live our lives. We can only hope for the best, and do what we can to help make things better. Let's not turn this

thread into an AOL type rant. Our name is Peace Through Understanding, and it means exactly that.

One other note to other posters- please try and refrain from the foul language. We are all frustrated about the map, but there is no need to bring profanity into the forums. Hearing it in conversation is one thing, but writing it in the threads is totally uncalled for. Peace, Jason

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's apparent some are only here to attempt to sell pictures and books.

Al

Thanks for the cheap shot, Al. Someone doesn't agree with you so you try to smear them. Want to compare how many hours some of us have spent in working out the bugs on the software, helping users with password isues, deleting spam and porn with your noble efforts? I can rest quite easily in balancing my own contributions to the board against any self promotion, thank you.

If my posts bother you I can help you find a way to not see them.

Bill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, and by the way, Al, next time you're back at the map project take a look at some of the photos of it from the Fair, and look who contributed many of them - at no charge. Do some reearch on who contributed photos to David Oats' various projects trying to promote the park - at no charge. Check who tried to help with the proposed Air & Space museum with photos, etc., etc., etc.

Could you then please tell us what you have done to help further the cause? Sorry, I seem to have missed that somehow.

Bill

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, and by the way, Al, next time you're back at the map project take a look at some of the photos of it from the Fair, and look who contributed many of them - at no charge. Do some reearch on who contributed photos to David Oats' various projects trying to promote the park - at no charge. Check who tried to help with the proposed Air & Space museum with photos, etc., etc., etc.

Could you then please tell us what you have done to help further the cause? Sorry, I seem to have missed that somehow.

Bill

Further what cause Bill? I unlike you have no financial interest here. I go to the fair site several times a year and post pictures and information here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the cheap shot, Al. Someone doesn't agree with you so you try to smear them. Want to compare how many hours some of us have spent in working out the bugs on the software, helping users with password isues, deleting spam and porn with your noble efforts? I can rest quite easily in balancing my own contributions to the board against any self promotion, thank you.

If my posts bother you I can help you find a way to not see them.

Bill

Is that a threat?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×