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Randy Treadway

Mystery Parking

46 posts in this topic

There are lots of GA airports that are close to major airports. There are often very specific rules as to approach patterns, etc. Some of them are a tad on the scary side if you're not familiar with the layout, at least to me. I would think having Flushing that close to LGA would have made for some interesting moments in the nearest Air Traffic Control facility from time to time...

Manager Name: Robert Balder

Manager Phone: 212-312-3865

I don't know about New York, but if this was Massachusetts, this guy would be somebody's brother-in-law and be making $150,000 a year as manager of an airport that's under a swamp.

It's the Massachusetts way.

Rings to the voicemail of "James Whalen". Will try again next week.

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Whalen, huh?

I'll bet he has a business card that says something like General Manager, Flushing International Airport.

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LaGuardia, on the other hand, sticks out into Long Island Sound and would be perfectly situated for a seaplane port. In fact I think somewhere I heard that they DID have a seaplane terminal there before the War.

Just looking at a map, it would make sense that they picked out the location for what became "LaGuardia" for that very reason. In the 30's it appeared that international air travel was destined to be the provenance of seaplanes, such as Pan Am's "China Clippers".

After test were held in the sea lanes in March of 1940, a Pan Am seaplane, the Yankee Clipper took off from La Guardia on April 1, 1940

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I believe the first one landed there in June of the previous year.

MB

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Hi All,

Yes, they did have a sea-plane terminal in operation for the 1939/40 Fair - I have a photograph of a Clipper by Stanley Preston "parked" in the water at the North Beach Airport (or just S/SE of it - opposite the Fair parking lots) - which was dedicated on October 15th, 1939 and became LaGuardia in 1947 when Port Authority took it over. Apparently, three planes flew overhead on Oct. 15, 1939 and spelled out "Name it LaGuardia". It opened officially for business in Dec. 2nd, 1939, although the first Yankee Clipper landed there in June of 1939.

Interestingly, I have discovered I have a photograph taken inside the Aviation Building of a model of this Marine Terminal, which was built in 1937-1939 and dedicated in March of 1940. I never knew what it was, but is is a grand deco structure with a fabulous mural. Thanks for the lead! Interiors of the Aviation Building are really hard to come by.

MB

magikbilly where are you getting your information from?

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Nice shot of a Clipper over Treasure Island...

061blg.jpg

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There are lots of GA airports that are close to major airports. There are often very specific rules as to approach patterns, etc. Some of them are a tad on the scary side if you're not familiar with the layout, at least to me. I would think having Flushing that close to LGA would have made for some interesting moments in the nearest Air Traffic Control facility from time to time...

Here's a pdf of a Flushing Airport Field Rules brochure that John Pender sent to me...

FlushingAirportGuide.pdf[/attachment:998a5]

As well as a 1950-60's era aerial photo of the Airport itself:

post-161-1206308354_thumb.jpgFlushingAirportAerial1.jpg[/attachment:998a5]post-54-1206305317_thumb.jpgFlushingAirportAerial-Zoom1.jpg[/attachment:998a5]

Thanks again John!

PS - Some of the more "eagle-eyed" members of PTU will notice the Adventurer's Inn at the bottom edge of the first photo - I have posted a zoomed-in view of that section of the photo here: [url:998a5]http://www.peacethroughunderstanding.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6332&p=48164#p48164[/url:998a5]

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field rules complete with typo: "The second leg is parallel to the wind of the tee" - I think they meant "wing of the tee"

I note they refer to the gas storage tank as a turning point. Is this the tank that is visible in the distance in some photos from the NYWF?

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Not a typo - it means to fly parallel to the direction of the wind as indicated on the wind tee.

Boy, it looks like a bunch of T-6's in that second photo. I would feel at home there!

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Guess I need a diagram, as I thought the fuselage was parallel to the wind.

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The basic theory is that you fly downwind (going in the direction of the wind, or parallel to the wind tee), then make a right angle turn onto what is called the base leg, then a final right angle turn towards the runway on the final leg. In small airports you are cautioned to avoid a straight in approach from off the premises so you can see what local conditions are, look for other traffic, etc. You are asked to announce your intention at each point of the process, so hopefully other pilots will "see and avoid".

Bill

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That's pretty much the military standard approach too, isn't it? Even on carrier landings (unless you're running out of gas and need to come in for a priority landing) it's downwind, then base leg, then final approach into the wind (and the carrier tries to always turn into the wind to provide max lift to planes approaching, to help keep them above stall speed).

It's interesting- once a few years ago at a plastic modeler's club meeting I was at, they had a guest speaker who was a jet fighter ace in Korea, who'd also flown fighters in WWII. When asked what was the hardest part about transitioning from piston/prop fighters to jets, he said a lot of guys had difficulty slowing down on the initial downwind approach leg and would miss their 90 degree turn into the base leg. That's because when you throttle down in a propeller plane the propeller alone slows you down, especially those with variable pitch props, while in a jet, it just "coasts" at high speed, and your effective ground speed doesn't slow down nearly as much. So they had a lot of "overshoots" when returning to their home base after a mission and the pilot would have to be sent all the way around to start their downwind leg all over again. He said you could tell a pilot who'd just transitioned from piston engine- they overshot the downwind approach a lot.

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The basic theory is that you fly downwind (going in the direction of the wind, or parallel to the wind tee), then make a right angle turn onto what is called the base leg, then a final right angle turn towards the runway on the final leg. In small airports you are cautioned to avoid a straight in approach from off the premises so you can see what local conditions are, look for other traffic, etc. You are asked to announce your intention at each point of the process, so hopefully other pilots will "see and avoid".

Bill

Bill, I know and understand what you said; however, I still don't see how the first leg can be parallel to fuselage (which I take it is also parallel to the wind), and the second leg (at right angles to the first) can also be parallel to the wind. That's why it still seems like a typo to me, unless you tell me that the fuselage of the tee is generally at right angles to the wind. I have not been in the pilot's seat for a long time, and the only terms I recall from when I learned to fly are "downwind", "base", and "final"; plus, I never flew into a place with a wind tee, so relating all that to "first leg" and "second leg" in this brochure still has me confused. Give me a little more tutorial, please?

BTW, still wondering if that gas tank appears in 1964 NYWF pictures, e.g, from the NYSP. - Wayne

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Here's a closer look at the Wind Tee and the northwestern part of the airport...

FlushingAirportAndWindTee.jpg[/attachment:448d1]

Best Regards,

Kevin

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Wayne, after re-reading that brochure a few times, and thinking this through, I am now tending to think you were right about that being a typo. It's an interesting one, though, as either wind or wing could make sense!

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Well, I found a gas tank in an image posted by Bill Cotter, but it's the wrong one - this one is on a point in Flushing Bay

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I think I found the gas tank that is mentioned in the Flushing Airport brochure - it appears in several pictures taken from the NYSP. Here is one I scanned for an acquaintance from audiokarma.org, Brian Gadow.

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One set has NYC pictures (including the Automat picture), and the last two pictures in that set are these parking lot pictures. The other two sets are all World's Fair pictures.

Randy-Thanks for steering me to this thread...very interesting stuff!

did you say Automat picture? Which location?

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Randy-Thanks for steering me to this thread...very interesting stuff!

did you say Automat picture? Which location?

The Automat picture is here:

viewtopic.php?f=82&t=5944

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Well, there's the left way of hanging things, and then there's the right way.

What's really funny is that the Smithsonian says of this photo that the mural at North Beach Airport (being worked on in June 1940) was a Federal W.P.A. Art project. We always knew that FDR was a leftist!

AAA_fedeartp14_4004.jpg

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust,

Fuel to the ducks, to lubricate the rust. [or go around quacking AFLAC!]

Hi Randy,Where did you find this picture?Was it in the Smithsonian?It looks like maybe my father and coworker Eddie Maier painting the mural on the wall.He used to paint signs at the airports

Regards,GoldSeals

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