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tony01

GM FUTURAMA

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Outstanding! :D

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Notice in the background NYSP under construction no roof

Enjoy

Hey Jason happy to here your doing great.

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Thank you tony01.

Always appreciate GM information.

Looking forward to seeing anything you have regarding that pavilion.

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Thank you tony01.

Always appreciate GM information.

Looking forward to seeing anything you have regarding that pavilion.

Thanks for all this great stuff .It brag a tear to my eye"s . You see my father who passaway on the job in 1969 worked on the GM building ! He was a union copenter . We got to go the day before it opened up to the pubic .He worked on the world fair from the start . The last year 1963 he worked 24- 7 on the GM building !! I can still member him laying his pay for one week across our dinning room table 7 $100 bills !! Remember this was 1963 !! I also remember him bringing home a big poster of the GM building .And alot of other promotional stuff .I wish i still had it . I was 7 years old at the time living in Hoboken NJ .I remember we would take the 63 bus to the Port Auth. to get the 7 to the Fair . I was also at Shea for opening day .Big Mets fan here .We drive to the games now from NJ .But some times we take the 7 .It reminds me of my father . I walk thought the park now & then .There"s not to much left .But i can still remember where almost everything was Oh the good old day. Thanks for the Memory's

Mr Hoboken

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Thanks for all this great stuff .It brag a tear to my eye"s . You see my father who passaway on the job in 1969 worked on the GM building ! He was a union copenter . We got to go the day before it opened up to the pubic .He worked on the world fair from the start . The last year 1963 he worked 24- 7 on the GM building !! I can still member him laying his pay for one week across our dinning room table 7 $100 bills !! Remember this was 1963 !! I also remember him bringing home a big poster of the GM building .And alot of other promotional stuff .I wish i still had it . I was 7 years old at the time living in Hoboken NJ .I remember we would take the 63 bus to the Port Auth. to get the 7 to the Fair . I was also at Shea for opening day .Big Mets fan here .We drive to the games now from NJ .But some times we take the 7 .It reminds me of my father . I walk thought the park now & then .There"s not to much left .But i can still remember where almost everything was Oh the good old day. Thanks for the Memory's

Mr Hoboken

WHAT A GREAT STORY.$700.00 A WEEK WOW THATS BIG MONEY FOR 1963.I MAY HAVE SOME PHOTOS OF WORKERS WORKING ON THE GM PAVILION MAYBE ONE IS YOUR DAD. I WILL TRY TO FIND AND POST IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS.

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Thanks for all this great stuff .It brag a tear to my eye"s . You see my father who passaway on the job in 1969 worked on the GM building ! He was a union copenter . We got to go the day before it opened up to the pubic .He worked on the world fair from the start . The last year 1963 he worked 24- 7 on the GM building !! I can still member him laying his pay for one week across our dinning room table 7 $100 bills !! Remember this was 1963 !! I also remember him bringing home a big poster of the GM building .And alot of other promotional stuff .I wish i still had it . I was 7 years old at the time living in Hoboken NJ .I remember we would take the 63 bus to the Port Auth. to get the 7 to the Fair . I was also at Shea for opening day .Big Mets fan here .We drive to the games now from NJ .But some times we take the 7 .It reminds me of my father . I walk thought the park now & then .There"s not to much left .But i can still remember where almost everything was Oh the good old day. Thanks for the Memory's

Mr Hoboken

Thanks for sharing that. There were many memories at that location. I feel the ghosts every time I go.

When I walk across the baseball field that was the GM Pavilion I always feel the vibe of it.

As I sometimes think; "Where is that time machine?"

The photo here was taken earlier this year of the GM site.

Al

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Thanks .My father also worked on Shea .My grandfather was one of the founding member"s of the copenters union 299 .Not around anymore . We will be at the last game at Shea also .It"s going to be very sad for us .Yes it"s old and out dated ,but it holds a lot of memory's for me .Back in the 60"s i always call it the home of the Jetsons LOL .Growing up it the 60's was great .Most weekends in the summertime we would go to Palisades park .Do you remember it ? for 25 cents we would take the public service bus from Hoboken to Palisades park . But there was nothing like the world fair . My bother inlaw love it .He must have gone there 50 times !! Can anybody here tell me where in the park i might fined some things left maybe out of the way things ? I'm really glad i found this BB .

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Okay, here's the results of the audio analysis.

First of all, the music on Ray's tape doesn't start until 5 seconds in, so I'm going to assume the music start was tripped by a limit switch at the end of the Loading speedramp.

And Ray's tape is only 12:58 long, so I'm going to further assume that the "missing" time is the time it took the chair to get from the Unloading ramp to the Loading ramp. To be more precise, from the beginning of the Unloading ramp (onboard audio end) to the end of the Loading ramp (onboard audio start).

Also, a basic assumption is going to have to be that the entire circuit took 15 minutes, not just the ride that the visitor enjoyed. Otherwise there's too much of a disconnect with Ray's audio. And besides, the way the GM marketing guys calculated the 12 hour rider capacity leads me to believe it was a 15 minute loop as well.

This also assumes a CONSTANT SPEED throughout the ride, which seems to be supported by the Engineering description on nywf64.com.

Okay, buckle your seat belts.....

[everything, including both speedramps and the facade windows, seem to be on the right side of the moving chairs which traversed the building in an overall counter-clockwise direction, except for the Desert diorama, which was on the left side of the moving chairs.]

Beginning of Unloading speedramp to end of Loading speedramp (no audio)

Ride time 2:07; distance 261 ft.

Music start (assumed to be at end of Loading speedramp) to beginning of "Moon" narration

Ride time 2:07 (no riders allowed normally); distance 261 ft.

Beginning of "Moon" to beginning of "Antarctica"

Ride time 1:36; distance 197 ft.

Beginning of "Antarctica" to beginning of "Weather Central"

Ride time 0:45; distance 93 ft.

Beginning of "Weather Central" to beginning of "Ocean"

Ride time 0:34; distance 70 ft.

Beginning of "Ocean" to beginning of "Jungle"

Ride time 2:04; distance 255 ft.

Beginning of "Jungle" to beginning of "Desert" (includes the "mountains" narration)

Ride time 2:11; distance 269 ft.

Beginning of "Desert" to beginning of "City of Tomorrow"

Ride time: 0:48; distance 99 ft.

Beginning of "City of Tomorrow" to beginning of narration closing remarks

Ride time: 1:49; distance 224 ft.

Beginning of narration closing remarks to end of audio (presumed to be at beginning of Unloading speedramp)

Ride time: 0:59; distance 121 ft.

Total Distance: 1,850 ft., right on the nose.

Okay, so who's ready to plot those points on Kevin's 3-D track layout map?

For what it's worth, the average distance between the start points of the major dioramas (combining Antarctica and Weather Central together) is 201 ft., or 67 yards. How's that for dead reckoning!!! <!-- s:) --><!-- s:) -->

Randy!

Glad to meet you and all those whose entries I've been reading for months. I'm new to the community and pretty ignorant about trying to upload items (I will attempt though). All of you have really helped me to recall a wonderful memory of Futurama II that I've held in my aging brain since 11. Thanks!! This is a blast! Unfortunately, my computer skills have not kept pace.

One contribution that I saw numbered the turns in the ride and that's what I'll refer to (in case the diagram fail to upload). After timing Ray's recording myself and applying the diorama start "cues" (different than yours, I think) to a manual scale diagram of the overhead view of the track (assuming that the recording time is 1:1, the track speed is 123.5 ft/sec and not accounting for distance changes when the track inclines or declines), I came up with this ...minorly influenced by personal memories of scenery changes at certain turns:

- Moon diorama starts about half way between turns 3 and 4 (to the right) on a decline

- Antarctic diorama starts about half way between turns 5 and 6 (to the right)

- Weather Central is at turn 7 (to the left)

- Ocean diorama starts (to the right) after coming out of Weather Central (on a decline to the lowest level) through turn 8

- Jungle diorama starts at turn 9 (to the right)

- Mountain/desert diorama starts at turn 10 (to the left)

- Future City starts at turn 11 through 13 (to the right) on an incline

You guys are great! Thanks for keeping this alive!! It certainly is alive in my head!

Jim

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Nice contribution BJ!

And nice find in that diagram from the GM Engineering Journal. Had we seen that before here? I don't recall it.

By the way, welcome to PTU !!!

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Randy,

The GM Engineering Report first surfaced as a donation to my VAULT II archive by the late George Kane. I thought it would be a welcome addition to Bill Young's website if he had space to include it in the GM Futurams II section. He was the first to make it available for all to see. This document has continually been part of the subsequent versions of The Vault CD series. You have it in your latest copy of Vault III. Upon first viewing, most were astounded that the ride was not all on one floor. What a feat of engineering! The ride propulsion system in itself was even more amazing. I always believed that GM was the premiere pavilion at the NYWF.

Ray D.

+++++++++++++++++++++

Nice contribution BJ!

And nice find in that diagram from the GM Engineering Journal. Had we seen that before here? I don't recall it.

By the way, welcome to PTU !!!

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Randy,

The GM Engineering Report first surfaced as a donation to my VAULT II archive by the late George Kane. I thought it would be a welcome addition to Bill Young's website if he had space to include it in the GM Futurams II section. He was the first to make it available for all to see. This document has continually been part of the subsequent versions of The Vault CD series. You have it in your latest copy of Vault III. Upon first viewing, most were astounded that the ride was not all on one floor. What a feat of engineering! The ride propulsion system in itself was even more amazing. I always believed that GM was the premiere pavilion at the NYWF.

Ray D.

+++++++++++++++++++++

Hello All!

First, thanks for the welcome, Randy! You're a great group and I'm learning a lot from all of you! The discussions, photos and illustrations contributed have been wonderful! Second, I apologize for the glaring track speed error ...I meant to type 123.5 FT/MIN. ("ft/sec" is almost a knee-jerk reflex when typing out speeds, isn't it? ...old college physics days resurface again!) At 123.5 ft/sec, the pavilion could have gotten more than 4 million folks through the ride each day, Alexander Scourby would've sounded like a chipmunk on speed and boarding the seats at about 84 mph would've been extremely hazardous!! Funny to think about though! Sorry for the typo.

By the way, after the Fair was over, I'm sure that many of you were able to recognize Alexander Scourby's voice on TV narrations or elsewhere when you heard it. My brother and I could pick him out immediately. We would both point to one another and yell, "FUTURAMA!" What a great voice he had. None of the on-line bios that I've seen list Futurama II to his credit though ....what a shame.

Randy and Ray, maybe you can shed some light on this -- have there been any discussions in the group or engineering info from GM that there were intentional environmental "effects" (simple ones) in Futurama II? I could've sworn that there was a chill in the air during the Antarctic diorama, an increase in heat and humidity in the jungle diorama and a definite warm arid feel to the mountain/desert diorama. Do either of you recall this too? (it may also have been the overactive imagination of an 11-year-old who was totally blown away by the ride!) I do recall remarking about the changes in temperature/humidity to my mother and brother while on the ride.

I guess that such effects are pretty commonplace today, especially at venues such as Disney World (e.g., the old "Horizons" pavilion at WDW Epcot Center ...anyone remember that one? It was a "~Futurama II surrogate" for me until it was recently redone ...my kids still miss "Horizons"). But if GM tried this in 1964 (and successfully, if I'm correct) -- WOW!! I agree with you, Ray! GM was the premiere pavilion at the Fair! (Ray, thanks for sharing the recording! I know we are all grateful for it!)

Thanks again to you all!

Jim

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Jim,

On each of my 38 trips, I invited friends, neighbors, business associates and family members to acompany me to The NYWF. I guess I saw myself as a tour guide as we wended our way to the more exciting attractions.

With few exceptions, we all boarded the GM Futurama II ride at one time or another. I must admit that the air conditionng always seemed to be working well, but there is no recollection that there were up and down temperature changes or humidity levels as the ride progressed.

Ray D.

Hello All!

First, thanks for the welcome, Randy! You're a great group and I'm learning a lot from all of you! The discussions, photos and illustrations contributed have been wonderful! Second, I apologize for the glaring track speed error ...I meant to type 123.5 FT/MIN. ("ft/sec" is almost a knee-jerk reflex when typing out speeds, isn't it? ...old college physics days resurface again!) At 123.5 ft/sec, the pavilion could have gotten more than 4 million folks through the ride each day, Alexander Scourby would've sounded like a chipmunk on speed and boarding the seats at about 84 mph would've been extremely hazardous!! Funny to think about though! Sorry for the typo.

By the way, after the Fair was over, I'm sure that many of you were able to recognize Alexander Scourby's voice on TV narrations or elsewhere when you heard it. My brother and I could pick him out immediately! We would both point to one another and yell, "FUTURAMA!" What a great voice he had. None of the on-line bios that I've seen list Futurama II to his credit though ....what a shame.

Randy and Ray, maybe you can shed some light on this -- have there been any discussions in the group or engineering info from GM that there were intentional environmental "effects" (simple ones) in Futurama II? I could've sworn that there was a chill in the air during the Antarctic diorama, an increase in heat and humidity in the jungle diorama and a definite warm arid feel to the mountain/desert diorama. Do either of you recall this too? (it may also have been the overactive imagination of an 11-year-old who was totally blown away by the ride!) I do recall remarking about the changes in temperature/humidity to my mother and brother while on the ride.

I guess that such effects are pretty commonplace today, especially at venues such as Disney World (e.g., the old "Horizons" pavilion at WDW Epcot Center ...anyone remember that one? It was a "~Futurama II surrogate" for me until it was recently redone ...my kids still miss "Horizons") But if GM tried this in 1964 (and successfully, if I'm correct) -- WOW!! I agree with you, Ray! GM was the premiere pavilion at the Fair! (Ray, thanks for sharing the recording! I know we are all grateful for it!)

Thanks again to you all!

Jim

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This seems like another Fair Legend, even our famed tour guide Pierre told the same story of the smells at GM. As I told him and Ray knows, the only pavilion that intentionally controlled the atmosphere in a large way is the Coke pavilion. The heat and dampness of the Cambodian forest, to the salty air and the hum beneath your feet on the ocean liner, to the crisp frosty air scented with pine at the Swiss chalet is what separated Coke from all other pavilions, a gem of a pavilion.

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At last, you may now learn all about the GM FUTURAMA II Pavilion by clicking on the URL below.

At the bottom of the opening page are two new albums, "GENERAL MOTORS FUTURAMA II FACTS" and "GM FUTURAMA II PRESS KIT 1964". Open the albums and view a total of 64 separate pages of information that applies to every aspect of the GM Pavilion.

Original materials were provided by the late George Kane.

Ray Dashner, Curator

http://community.webshots.com/user/draydar

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Some interesting information from Ray's source documents-

* the audio narration for the ride wasn't played from magnetic tape. It was played from optical film. [would like to hear more how that worked....]

it says it was sprocketed, four-channel film

The amplifier and film transport was mounted on every third car.

[since there were 463 cars, I take that to mean there were about 154 copies of the audio/optical film being transported around the track at any one time.]

There is another place that says there were 154 "sound units", each covering 12 feet of ride track. Maybe a coincidence 154 = 154, but it confuses me about each covering 12 feet of track.

the film was actually two-channel (one voice, one music) that was self-reversing with a total capacity of 15 minutes (the time of the ride).

* the Jungle Road Builder model was 16 feet long! That scale surprises me, from photos I thought it was smaller.

* On the other end of the scale, the penguins in the Antarctica diorama were only 1½ inches tall. I thought THOSE were bigger! :D

* the ride was built almost in its entirety in Detroit, and then sawed into almost 2,000 pieces for shipment to New York, where it was reassembled.

Here are some calibration points against which to check our previous 'reverse engineering' calculations when we tried to "map" the ride solely from the narration audio track:

Space & Moon: 171 feet of track

Antartica: 330 feet of track

Undersea: 504 feet of track

Jungle: 518 feet of track

Mountain Desert: 829 feet of track

City: 2,155 feet of track

*"Utility building and cooling tower located adjacent to main building"

[that's the building we had spotted in aerial photos....apparently the ducting to and from the main building was underground (right under the Bison big-rig) ]

* the largest of the rocks that were placed in the exterior landscaping of the building weighed 16 tons

*24 Ilex and one Australian pine were removed from the site in 1960 and stored at a nursery until 1963, when they were re-planted as pavilion landscaping. They dated back to the '39-40 NYWF.

*Capacity was 70,000 persons in a 12-hour day. The ride was open from 10am to 10pm (12 hours).

Daily average (apparently during the first season) was 67,743. (that's 97% of capacity).

But the greatest single-day was reported as 7/06/64 with 121,077 riders. That's 173% of capacity! How did they do that? Maybe the ride ran straight through all night for 24 hours that day? If so, what was so special about that particular day that they would run it around-the-clock?

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At last, you may now learn all about the GM FUTURAMA II Pavilion by clicking on the URL below.

At the bottom of the opening page are two new albums, "GENERAL MOTORS FUTURAMA II FACTS" and "GM FUTURAMA II PRESS KIT 1964". Open the albums and view a total of 64 separate pages of information that applies to every aspect of the GM Pavilion.

Original materials were provided by the late George Kane.

Ray Dashner, Curator

http://community.webshots.com/user/draydar

Outstanding, Ray! Thank you!!

Jim

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To Randy, According to your calibrations the ride was 4500 ft in length or more than 4/5ths of a mile.Is that possible or does it seem a little too long?-Jerry

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The overall track length was said to be 1,850 feet, and we previously double-checked that very closely with the stated ride speed (1.4mph) and the ride's length (exactly 15 minutes). It calibrates within a couple of feet.

That said, yes, there is something way off with the stated lengths for each diorama. They add up to far greater than the ride. In fact, the stated length of the City diorama alone is more than the entire ride all by itself!

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Here is the answer:

the stated diorama lengths are for the mechanical animation track, which is quoted as being a total of 4,588 linear feet (including both overhead and set level).

No, I don't know the layout of the mechanical animation track, or how it related to the ride track. Until now I didn't realize there was another track in there.

Perhaps they had a separate system that "drove" all the little cars in the City, the submarines in the Ocean, the Lunar Rovers, and so on.

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Randy, are you sure they're not talking about film tracks rather than physical ride tracks?

Optical sound-on-film made perfect sense for this ride, as it was wear resistant and easily synchronized.

Maybe they put the animation cues on film also.....

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Don't know Mike. Maybe we'll find out some day.

I guess the lengths quoted for each diorama could still serve as a relative comparison to each other.....obviously the City at the end was the longest part of the ride.

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Don't know Mike. Maybe we'll find out some day.

I guess the lengths quoted for each diorama could still serve as a relative comparison to each other.....obviously the City at the end was the longest part of the ride.

Hi, Randy

Part of the distance discrepancies that we see from the data that Ray provided may be because we are thinking too linearly about the 1850-ft track itself ....you know, "diorama starts - diorama ends - next diorama starts", etc. I think there were overlaps from one to the next (seen or unseen to the riders). There was a blending. I distinctly remember looking at a mountain scene straight ahead before making a right turn out of the jungle diorama and I'm pretty sure that the desert display was finishing up on the left side while there was a transition scene off to the right, before entering the City of Tomorrow. Ahhhh, art and engineering. Ray's recording may still have the best cues for approximating what was where.

Jim

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This is really amazing! In the past 24 hours, 260 visitors have read the "GM FUTURAMA II FACTS" at my WEBSHOTS site shown below.

I've also added 30 pages of the "GM PRESS RELEASE 1964" which was originally limited to 500 copies and were distributed to the media. Thanks to the late George Kane, WNBC-TV archivist in NYC, it is now available to hundreds of NYWF enthusiasts.

Ray D.

http://community.webshots.com/user/draydar

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Ray, that is fabulous! Thank you!

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Wayne,

There's more to be seen here: http://davidszondy.com/future/city/futurama1964.htm

I could be wrong, but this could be the first time posted here on PTU.

Ray D.

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