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tony01

GM FUTURAMA

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Thanks Kevin, nice catch! That makes it fit much better in all the cross section views, from either side.

This one also has had me stumped. These two drawings don't match in the middle part of the ride. One has gentle turns and no loop; the other one has some pretty tight turns and a passover loop.

Since the description inside the Engineering report (that went with the "cover") says there were variations in elevation down in the basement (which would be necessary for the track to loop around and pass over another part of the track), I tend to think the version with the loop is more likely to be the accurate depiction. That would also better explain the shading on the track drawing that is must be "wrong" without the loops- at least the shading is right to show elevation since the track would have to be at a "middle" elevation until that tight loop allowed it to pass back down underneath to the basement floor.

I wonder if that tight loop was surrounded by a single diorama all the way around the turn? And was there something to prevent riders from 'seeing around the corner'?

GM_Loop.jpg

Yesterday I also said the entire ride was counter-clockwise. That's only true at the top level. Once the ride passed underneath the "finishing" track, it became a clockwise operation down in the lower levels of the building (except for that little loop temporarily reversing direction again until the track once again passed underneath itself).

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"A really interesting thought, Irv... and one that I often have related to World's Fairs and Expos in general. And I'm not sure we'd be having this conversation-- or that communities and sites like PTU would ever even exist if either one or both of the great GM Futuramas were still sitting there in Flushing Meadow. More likely, they'd be run down relics like the NYSP... ignored or forgotten for the most part by the multitudes of people who drive by them every day."

I sometimes feel we would all have been better off if the New York State pavilion were demolished at the end of the fair, so it could have lived on in our minds in all its glory. I would have much rather remembered it like that then seeing its lonliness and suffering. If it had a soul and could speak to us, it might be begging to be put out of its misery. Maybe our lack of compassion and selfishness is being misdirected.

On a similar thought, if every pavilion at the fair and been demolished behind closed doors with no witnesses or documented photographs, we wouldn't have felt the pain of their demise as we watched their innards being ripped out. It's kind of like having someone dear to you hopelessly suffer and waste away, rather than having them die peacefully in their sleep. We choose not to remember the former.

It's the way the fair was obliterated which bothers me so much.

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This one also has had me stumped. These two drawings don't match in the middle part of the ride. One has gentle turns and no loop; the other one has some pretty tight turns and a passover loop...

Hi Randy,

I think the two drawings match - but there are few turns that you are seeing from the side, so they look like straight sections - sort of like looking at the rings of Saturn edge-on...

Here's another try with the turns labeled 1 through 15 for all four drawings (and drawing number two in the correct orientation):

post-387-1206633601_thumb.jpg

Does this help?

Kevin

post-387-1206633601_thumb.jpg

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Yes Randy I will try my best to do it.

Tony

Randy I just reposted it. I may have to email you the photo

Tony

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Okay, so who's ready to plot those points on Kevin's 3-D track layout map?

It occured to me the overlay that Kevin did is still just 2-D, albeit looking straight down.

Calibrating the points to that overlay, or to any of the four other diagrams we now have, would not be perfect on any of them because of the dimensional skewing that is inherent in any 2-D view of a ride's track with elevation changes and curves. Kevin's comment about the rings of Saturn pointed that out.

Applying the markers to the direct overhead view (Kevin's overlay) would probably be CLOSEST, but still would be skewed a little bit where there are descents and climbs.

In any case, applying the markers is very difficult without some kind of software that can calculate distance of non-linear lines (sounds like an oxymoron, huh?).

Then it occured to me- maybe this is a perfect little practice project for one of Dr. Walter's students down at the University of Central Florida, to learn their new game engine, while they're waiting on their next funding grant.

i.e. use the three or four 2-D diagrams that we have in this topic (including the corrected upside down one), to create a 3-D wire model of the track, and then use the game engine to run down the track at constant speed for a perfect 15 minute circumference, and if it works they could then mark off those time markers for us (the likely location of the dioramas).

Some day if we discover an interior track map with dioramas indicated, we could then go back and "check our work". But I'll bet the calculations off Ray's audio tape are pretty close!

I'm going to e-mail Dr. Walters.

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Hi Randy

Good news - I think I have a member of our team that will take on this project as soon as this semester is over (late April). Could a CD be put together with all the materials that could help her?

Many thanks,

Lori

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It would be nice if we could get the exterior 'grade' plotted as an overlay on the middle of these three drawings. Then we could see how much was 'basement' (below grade).

I believe a couple of years ago it was revealed that the high point of the ride- where the exit and entry ramps were located- and the short ride right after the start- was at a level even with the 'windows' on the front of the facade. Which I would take to mean "2nd floor".

And from there it appears that the ride 'dove' all the way down into the basement. There is a picture of the 'grade' on that section of the track on nywf64.com.

On the top drawing, it might be that the elevation of the track is indicated by shading. Black is the highest point, and white is the lowest point in the ride. A 'medium gray' might be at street level.

gm79.jpg

At the time when I first met with Mr. George Kane on the day following the famous S.I.P. on June 2, 2001, he confided in me with many stories of his relationship with the General Motors publicity dept. when he was still in high school. The engineering document that appears on this posting by Randy is only one example of the intricate details of the Futurama Ride. This was originally posted and credited to Mr. Kane and myself on www,nyf64.com and it was the first time that anyone knew the actual track arrangement for the ride. Many other details are included in the GM Engineering Document which Mr. Kane received as part of the initial publicity materials from GM. With Mr. Kane's approval, this document became a part of my VAULT III CD-ROM which has since been viewed by many hundreds of NYWF enthusiasts over the years. RAY DASHNER

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I know this is a little off "this" topic but Futurama related.

As the end of the ride when we got off the chairs or maybe in the Chevrolet area, does anyone remember a cut-away Chevy engine that slowly rotated to show how it worked?

My High School auto shop teacher claimed that it was in the Futurama building at the fair and that GM donated it to Smithtown Central Schools after the closing of the fair.

I don't remember it at the Futurama building but do remember it from the early/mid 1970's in my school.

The engine was rotated by a chromed alternator.

The externals of the engine were Chevy Orange-ish but seemed a bit more red than the correct color.

The internals of the block (cut open water gackets etc) we painted an off white.

Valves, rockers, push rods and springs were all chrome.

I thing the oilp pan was clear plexiglas if I remember correctly.

Anyone ever see this or was my teacher (Mr. V.) preying on an impressionable mind? ;)

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Anyone ever see this or was my teacher (Mr. V.) preying on an impressionable mind? ;)

Yes. It was in an area called the Avenue of Progress.

057_-_Cutaway_engine.jpg

©Bill Cotter, Set 45, Picture #057

But part of your discription matches this engine instead, which was displayed in the same area. It was a diesel, and doesn't appear to have been a working cutaway version.

059_-_Turbine_engine.jpg

©Bill Cotter, Set 45, Picture #059

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Yes. It was in an area called the Avenue of Progress.

057_-_Cutaway_engine.jpg

©Bill Cotter, Set 45, Picture #057

But part of your discription matches this engine instead, which was displayed in the same area. It was a diesel, and doesn't appear to have been a working cutaway version.

059_-_Turbine_engine.jpg

©Bill Cotter, Set 45, Picture #059

Thanks!

The Chevy engine we had was painted like the Diesel and was chromed like it is in the picture you posted but is not that engine.

I specifically remember the intake manifold being cut-away and a carb. so it was not a diesel. It also had the "RAM-HORN" manifolds because one of the kids in the class was trying to get Mr. V. to trade them for more modern ones with the air injectors.

The school was demoted to a middle school for several years before returning to being a High School. The auto shop was closed down during that time.

I'd be willing to bet the brain trusts shutting down the auto shop "land filled" the historic engine. They are good that way.

Mr. V was a graduate of the school in 1968 so the engine would have arrived during his actual schooling.

I took auto shop in 1974. The last graduating class members I spoke to before the middle school days said the engine was still there then along with the 1964 283 I rebuilt for the class in 1974.

I'll see if I can get one of the current students to check out the shops and see it it still lives. They don't know what a real camera is anymore but if it is there, a cell phone picture might be a shot. :rolleyes:

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And the length of the ride was said to be 15 minutes.

So, taking out my Chinese abacus, and taking the square root of the circumference times the hypotenuse of the exponent, and taking a break to eat a slice of Pi, I calculate that the length of the track was.....[drumroll please].......616 yards in length.

Give or take a mile or two.

[we don't talk metric here. This was 1964 after all. <!-- s:) --><!-- s:) --> ]

So every second the chairs moved almost 25 inches.

Six dioramas, if evenly spaced apart, would be about 100 yards or so apart, but given that the loading & unloading needed extra space, plus space to look out the facade windows, make that 616 divided by 9 instead of 6, and it yields 68 yards apart.

I tend to think even that is too far- probably the curves, descents and climbs required extra track space of their own.

Well if anyone's interested, the ride was 568.62 metres long, the dioramas were 62.77 metres apart and took 10.42 metric minutes to complete the ride.

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Did someone mention that the top image posted is not an engine, but an automatic transmission? If not, I just did.

I also think that somewhere/sometime I have seen cutaways that were animated to show the engine complete and then opened up, or maybe just rotating to show the outside and then the cutaway side, but I can't recall exactly - may have been at an auto show [or I may be just imagining it].

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Not literally video captured to tape, but there is film that's been converted to video:

And here are some workers building the dioramas:

[i don't remember seeing this latter footage before]

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That last footage is great. Never seen it before. It sure shows how large the models were.

Does anyone know a good utility for capturing video from Youtube? I'd like to squirrel some of this stuff away in case it ever goes down there.

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The motion of the camera in post #119's link implies the Antarctic Weather scene was on the left, not the right, as I suggested in post #75.

Bill Cotter: I've been given several free utilities for capturing YouTubes but they never work for me. One that did work on a Mac was shareware and let me save only a short sample without paying for it. Please let me know if you succeed in finding one.

That second video of Assembling the Futurama was outstanding! The man in coveralls is obviously acting and pretending to hammer and adjust things. I wonder what the purpose of that clip was. The poster, Captainlarrydart, is someone we should talk to.

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I'm unable to view any of tony01's images. All I see is text between square brackets like this: 251848 - consideration.jpg[/attachment:vp4b6xm0]

This is killin' me as I love all things Futurama. I'm also unable to view tony01's images under topic, Building the Fair, Construction Images.

Subsequent posts in both threads are full of exclamations of thanks and compliments for the "great shots" which is like rubbing salt in my wounds.

Will someone please tell me how I can see what I'm missing?

Fair News, Official Bulletin of NYWF, 13 Nov 62, has a photo of GM foundation and sidewalls propped up with angle braces and resembling the World Trade Center slurry wall or "tub" as they call it. Those walls are TALL.

NYWF Corp Progress Report #7, 454 days to opening, 24 Jan 1963, p 53 has a similar shot with NYCP in background and a man for scale.

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post-3851-1209925663_thumb.jpgHi xl5er

I dont know were all the photos went. When the new board started we seemed to have lost all the photos.I will try to repost some or all the photos if I can.It may take some time. I have been in contact with the company who built the Futurama pavillion and Im trying to get more photos and items from them so I can post some new stuff on the pavillion.I have been in contact with them over a month its tuff but they are very helpful. So maybe real soon I may have some new photos and info.

This is one of the photos I posted enjoy.post-3851-1209925940_thumb.jpg

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