Jump to content


Photo

The Soviet Union at Expo 70


  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 Bill Cotter

Bill Cotter

    Master Builder

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,956 posts

Posted 18 June 2010 - 09:32 PM

I don't recall seeing any views of this spacecraft display before.

Posted Image

#2 Mike Kraus

Mike Kraus

    Never Logs Off

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,159 posts

Posted 19 June 2010 - 06:34 AM

Would that be Yuri Gagarin up on the wall?

#3 Bill Cotter

Bill Cotter

    Master Builder

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,956 posts

Posted 19 June 2010 - 08:59 AM

I believe so. I thought having him hold a white dove was a bit much.

#4 gary h

gary h

    Likes World's Fairs

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 363 posts

Posted 19 June 2010 - 11:19 AM

Hi, here's another interior pic:Attached File  00expo70m.jpg   390.46KB   93 downloads

That would be, I believe, Lenin(?)

#5 Randy Treadway

Randy Treadway

    Master Builder

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,430 posts

Posted 19 June 2010 - 02:17 PM

Yep, it's Vlad all right. :)

In that Gagarin picture, doesn't it look like the dove has been pasted in? If not, it's an awkward way to hold a dove, like he's got it by just one foot.

#6 Bill Cotter

Bill Cotter

    Master Builder

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,956 posts

Posted 19 June 2010 - 02:56 PM

I think it was just the angle and the size that I posted.

Posted Image

#7 Randy Treadway

Randy Treadway

    Master Builder

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,430 posts

Posted 19 June 2010 - 03:35 PM

I found the photo on the internet. It looks a bit more real here.

Posted Image

#8 Jim

Jim

    Never Logs Off

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,977 posts

Posted 24 June 2010 - 06:58 PM

I like that photograph of Yuri Gagarin. I am not certain as to when or why he was photographed with the dove, but in 1970 he had been dead for two years. He had been killed in a plane crash and there were a number of investigations into the cause of that accident. As the first man in space, he was a true hero to the Soviet people and rightly so. I think all those who were fascinated by the wonders of space travel in the 1960's found Gagarin to be an heroic figure. On a political level, he certainly made for positive public relations for the USSR during the Cold War years.

#9 Randy Treadway

Randy Treadway

    Master Builder

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,430 posts

Posted 24 June 2010 - 07:26 PM

The information I found said that the photo dates to 1961 on one of the goodwill tours that they sent him (for years and years- Gagarin, Titov and Turescheva. Such travel pressures that Turescheva ended up in the hospital). Eventually the government had Gagarin grounded because flying in space was way too risky for such a valuable commodity. He was perfectly healthy.
Gagarin's propaganda value was immense, but the joke might have backfired. People inside NASA said that Gagarin's greatest propaganda value was to THEM- in convincing Washington 'Sputnik was bad enough, now they've got their pilots right over our heads!'. Before the politicians, the NASA guys would trot out all these photos of Gagarin being idolized around the world.
So reverse propaganda might have ended up being even more powerful than the propaganda that the Russians intended.

Maybe the Russians were even using him after he was dead, like at Expo 70.
I saw the settlement the USSR government gave his widow when he died in the plane crash- not just the usual military death benefit, but a HUGE bonus.

#10 Bill Cotter

Bill Cotter

    Master Builder

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,956 posts

Posted 24 June 2010 - 09:28 PM

They had photos of him later at Expo 86 as well.

#11 Jim

Jim

    Never Logs Off

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,977 posts

Posted 25 June 2010 - 07:22 AM

I just thought about the fact that by the time Expo 70 opened, the US had landed on the moon. Yuri Gagarin had to serve as some form of positive public relations for the Soviet Union in the face of that reality. In essence, the space race was over. Nevertheless, an era of cooperation in space travel began. Just five years later, there were joint ventures between the USA and USSR.

#12 Randy Treadway

Randy Treadway

    Master Builder

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,430 posts

Posted 25 June 2010 - 07:50 AM

I just thought about the fact that by the time Expo 70 opened, the US had landed on the moon. Yuri Gagarin had to serve as some form of positive public relations for the Soviet Union in the face of that reality. In essence, the space race was over. Nevertheless, an era of cooperation in space travel began. Just five years later, there were joint ventures between the USA and USSR.


Now that insider accounts of life inside the Soviet space program can be openly published, it is clear that the U.S. took the lead in '64 or '65, and by the end of '66 the cosmonauts themselves knew it was over and there was surprisingly open rebellion within the cosmonaut ranks at the disfunctional project management at the top of the Russian space programs.

The 'era of cooperation and joint ventures' is REALLY something.
It was face-saving for the Russians. And for the Americans- the working level engineers, scientists and astronauts, it was an insult and deeply disappointing to have Apollo cancelled early and told by the politicians to go work on Apollo-Soyuz. And years later, the current "International Space Station".
Here they'd spent years developing a Ferrari that performed beyond anybody's wildest dreams, and eager to go the next step they're instead told (not asked, but told) to go built a connector so the Ferrari and a Yugo can drive next to each other for a photo op. There were quite a few people who retired rather than do it. It was such a huge insult. No scientific value at all. No technology progression. Just photo ops. Take a picture shaking hands. Peace dove? sure, paste that in too.
As far as "working together" on the project, the entire challenge was to build interfaces between the two vehicles to 'downgrade' the American technology which was several generations ahead of the Russians. For the Americans, everything was compromises which were negative--- downgrading, patching, etc. Nothing on the "Yugo" got upgraded--- all the compromises were on the American side to downgrade.

The Space Station today isn't much better. Sure they do some kind of experiment on flowers for a kindergarten class in Iowa. Woo-hoo!

NASA is not a place that very many of our brightest people want to go to work any more. So different than the atmosphere in 1959 when the first Mercury astronauts were recruited and people would give away their first born to be chosen. The very early Russian launches were just as exciting for them too.

Bottom line, the Soviets would deny it, being socialists/communists, but competition is a good thing. It encourages innovation, progession and advancement. Take away competition and things stagnate quickly.

#13 Jim

Jim

    Never Logs Off

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,977 posts

Posted 25 June 2010 - 07:48 PM

I agree that during the 1960's, the space program was a remarkable and exciting adventure. I remember writing to astronauts to get autographed photographs and I still have some of them. In any case, as a history teacher, I have found myself telling kids that while the Cold War produced some terrible moments in history including the wars in Korea and Vietnam, the building of the Berlin Wall, the Cuban Missile Crisis and that constant, nagging fear that we would eventually blow outselves to bits in a nuclear disaster, there was one aspect that offered hope. We could actually communicate with the enemy. There were so many times when there were hopeful joint ventures or cultural exchanges. And through those efforts, we discovered that the Soviets really did not want to lose their nation in a nuclear holocaust any more than we did. Those joint space ventures in the 1970's offered hope that we might find some sort of understanding. We cannot do this today as we face the reality of terrorist organizations. There is no chance for detente. There is no communication and no way to build any bridges. Our rivals and our enemies in the Cold War era had faces we could recognize. They participated in global events and, in the final analysis, they were open to dialogue. We sure don't have that today.

#14 Joey Chernov

Joey Chernov

    Loves World's Fairs

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 621 posts

Posted 26 June 2010 - 09:36 AM

The 'era of cooperation and joint ventures' is REALLY something.
It was face-saving for the Russians. And for the Americans- the working level engineers, scientists and astronauts, it was an insult and deeply disappointing to have Apollo cancelled early and told by the politicians to go work on Apollo-Soyuz. And years later, the current "International Space Station".
Here they'd spent years developing a Ferrari that performed beyond anybody's wildest dreams, and eager to go the next step they're instead told (not asked, but told) to go built a connector so the Ferrari and a Yugo can drive next to each other for a photo op. There were quite a few people who retired rather than do it. It was such a huge insult. No scientific value at all. No technology progression. Just photo ops. Take a picture shaking hands. Peace dove? sure, paste that in too.

The Space Station today isn't much better. Sure they do some kind of experiment on flowers for a kindergarten class in Iowa. Woo-hoo!

NASA is not a place that very many of our brightest people want to go to work any more. So different than the atmosphere in 1959 when the first Mercury astronauts were recruited and people would give away their first born to be chosen. The very early Russian launches were just as exciting for them too.


As an individual who has devoted his entire life (so far) to studying the Space Programmes of multiple nations, the technology and hardware employed, as well as concepts, prototypes, tests, flights, ect I can not agree with you more. The people involved in the Apollo programme were shocked when the Apollo 18 mission was reworked to become the ASTP with the Soyuz 19 Capsule. Not many people realize that the Apollo Programme was planned out all the way to Apollo 40 which would have landed on the moon for over three months if not longer! The extensions and special missions that were being researched would have called for an incredible, in-depth and even colonization of the moon that rivals and modern plans today. It is also no wonder, and for the same reason Randy mentioned above, that today's Government and public regards NASA in the way it does. It's become so mundane and boring that any exciting plans have been cut short or drastically reduced. Anyone see Obamas speech at Kennedy Space Centre a few months ago? That, in my opinion, was just a say way of saying that it is no longer important to send Astronauts into the cosmos, that robots could do a better job. A robot will NEVER be able to have the same curiosity or drive that a human has. A robot will decide that the glint in the distance is just an anomaly and move on, where a human would clearly recognize that it is out of place, and would explore to find out what it is, possibly making a life changing discovery. Also, to me, that speech symbolized the end of the space programme as we know it, for to say that "In about 20 years we'll return to the moon" is pretty much to say that we'll go back whenever we want to, which will most likely be not for quite some time. This is sad for all the young people (such as myself) who have dreamed of such a high-profile career. For a less motivated person, this effectively kills their dreams of Spaceflight (Excluding private companies of course) Also like Randy had said, no one really wants to use their expertise for NASA anymore, and that is because the general consensus now is that NASA is no longer the "go-to" place for high-profile R&D. NASA inspired a countless generation of people ever since its inception, and to see it being tossed aside is just a grim reminder how quickly we can change out priority to other less-noble things such as Wars ect. War doesn't inspire anyone, the stars do, but it's being shown to us that the stars aren't important or inspiring anymore. And that is the saddest of all.

#15 Randy Treadway

Randy Treadway

    Master Builder

  • Root Admin
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,430 posts

Posted 23 January 2011 - 11:07 PM

Over the weekend I found that I have a nice picture of a replica of the Apollo 11 lunar landing module inside the U.S. Pavilion at Expo 70.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users