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RAY DASHNER

Ray's NYWF Flag Flys Again on October 17

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Here's where Ray's flag just was flown, just in October 1965 and not October 2009.

gotham-plaza-oct-65.jpg

It's 3:15 in the afternoon. Where is everyone? Especially as it will all be gone soon...

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Looking at the leaves on the trees, I suspect the picture was taken earlier in the summer but not developed until October. Therefore no 'last chance' crowds yet. It might have also been on a weekday.

It is certainly 1965 though.

* the official souvenir booth stands have the 1965 red & gold colors.

* if you zoomed in on the RCA message board you might see a message unique to 1965, and the World's Fair Pavilion might say something about Churchill.

* and of course their absence is not definitive, but no Greyhound Escorters in a prime taxi pickup point

There are probably other 1965 clues in the photo as well, with locations of vending booths.

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Here's where Ray's flag just was flown, just in October 1965 and not October 2009.

gotham-plaza-oct-65.jpg

It's 3:15 in the afternoon. Where is everyone? Especially as it will all be gone soon...

Great pic Bill. I'd love to walk the fair again. Damn where is that time machine!

post-805-125677133842_thumb.jpg

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Looking at the leaves on the trees, I suspect the picture was taken earlier in the summer but not developed until October. Therefore no 'last chance' crowds yet. It might have also been on a weekday.

It is certainly 1965 though.

* the official souvenir booth stands have the 1965 red & gold colors.

* if you zoomed in on the RCA message board you might see a message unique to 1965, and the World's Fair Pavilion might say something about Churchill.

* and of course their absence is not definitive, but no Greyhound Escorters in a prime taxi pickup point

There are probably other 1965 clues in the photo as well, with locations of vending booths.

Based on the short sleeves some people were wearing I was thinking it might be from an earlier period as well. It has to be late in the season, though, as the shadows are pretty pronounced for 3:15. Definitely 1965 from the Guide Book stand. Nothing special on the RCA board, th eusual "See Yourself on Color TV" message. Can't see anything about Churchill, the angle is wrong.

Whatever the date, I loved the view. I keep thinking about how exciting it was the first time I came down that ramp as a 12 year old.

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I'm at the SMPTE conference this week - will attempt to date the pic by the shadows and apparent weather conditions when I get back home. Meanwhile if someone else wants to try, please go ahead.

Bill, if you could provide zooms of the souvenir stand with its shadow, and the clock, I think that might help. Or, if this is on one of your CDs, point me to it.

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Playing photographic Sherlock Holmes is an unexpected bonus of this board.

Not one of those people carries an umbrella or jacket. So even when they left the house they were convinced there was no chance of rain and it would be hot. Weather forecasts were less reliable then, so they probably based their decision on their personal risk assessment of temperature change throughout the day at that time of year. In NYC, hot spring and fall days can get cool in morning or evening.

I'm thinking it is well into summer/Indian summer.

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Not on a CD yet, Wayne. Does this help?

thanks - this should be easy to measure

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I wonder if the casters on the bottom of those official guide kiosks had locks on them?

What a prank for teenagers- hook the kiosk up to a passing glide-a-ride train, and watch the kid inside start yelling as he goes rolling down the street. :)

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Not on a CD yet, Wayne. Does this help?

gotham-plaza-oct-65-zoom.jpg

Man this is like looking at the Zapruder film. Check out the the guy next to the glide a ride driver, he looks like a worker . Also the hood on the motor is raised. I wonder if it over heated or they were having problems with that unit

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Check out the the guy next to the glide a ride driver, he looks like a worker . Also the hood on the motor is raised. I wonder if it over heated or they were having problems with that unit

The Glide-A-Ride driver and his buddies are obviously discussing the Juan Marichal/Johnny Roseboro incident from the day before, so this photo was definitely taken on August 23, 1965... :rolleyes:

Okay, so I'm just making that up... But it is a nice photo Bill - thanks for sharing!

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Maybe they kept the GAR engines from overheating by keeping the hood open a bit.

The red paint doesn't look too good on the top of the clock, either. Better repaint that while you're at it, Johnny!

Maintenance was in a death spiral in the waning weeks/months of the fair.

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The clocks were actually a cross-hatched red design, if I remember correctly. The full-size picture is at home and I'm not. They did pull them all out between seasons to upgrade and clean them up.

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#507 was EXACTLY what I had in mind!

That they took out the clocks and cleaned/refurbed them speaks to the untold, collective cost and investment that was made in this fair by the participants! Staggering, when you consider the changes made between (and even during) seasons. Imagine Ford replacing all of the cars on the Magic Skyway.... and Texaco changing sections of the Map and so on and so on? Wild.

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Measuring the shadows turned out to be harder than I thought. The tip of the kiosk shadow is not obviously related to any particular point on the top of the kiosk. So, taking a guess on that and also trying a couple of other shadows (there aren't many showing completely) I get between 40.8 and 42.8 degrees.

I will have to verify this at home, but it appears that this could not be in Spring, because it was either standard time before April 25, and the sun would be lower, or daylight saving time after, with the sun higher. If that verifies to be correct, it would be some day around September 10-15.

Double check and more precise work needed.

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I'm amazed to see that over 2,500 views have accumulated on this topic so far.

This is the first official NYWF flag to fly at Flushing Meadows in 44 years since the closing of The Fair.

Thanks to everyone who commented on this project with kind words and praise. Hard work and dedication by Johnny Piro made the flagraising possible. Many thanks, Johnny.

Ray Dashner

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Well, the shadows still seem to indicate September 10-15, but the middle of that range doesn't match the weather:

Date TmaxF TminF TmeanF PrcpIn

9/10/1965 94 71 82.5 0

9/11/1965 82 69 75.5 0

9/12/1965 69 62 65.5 0.01

9/13/1965 64 60 62 0.2

9/14/1965 74 58 66 T

9/15/1965 72 66 69 T

Combining the two pieces of info, September 11 seems most probable. However, if someone can spot a more clearly discernable shadow length / object height pair, that might change things.

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