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Randy Treadway

'65 Mustang

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This slide is dated August 64.

The Mustang on display is a convertible with a white top. The 'license plate' says 1965.

I know the initial debut of the first Mustangs was mid-year, and they were referred to as "64 and a half's".

When did the '65 Mustangs debut?

64-08-22-b-09_Ford_Pavilion.jpg

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According to this article April 17, 1964. That is the best Mustang color combo in the picture. Red with the white top. I think it also came with white or red seats.

<a href="http://www.mustangheaven.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-682.html" target="_blank">http://www.mustangheaven.com/forums/archiv....php/t-682.html</a>

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April 17th was when the "64 and a halfs" debuted.

I'm wondering about the '65 model year. It used to be that new cars always showed up at American dealerships in September. That's why I'm curious about this one showing up at the Ford Pavilion on a slide that's dated August. Did they put '65's on display there several weeks before they went on sale to the public?

That is the best Mustang color combo in the picture. Red with the white top. I think it also came with white or red seats.

Looks like the sun visors on this one are red, so I'll bet the seats are red too.

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Hi Randy,

Since the Mustang was a mid-year introduction (with actual production beginning in March 1964), it was officially referred to as a "1965" model by Ford, and was never called a 1964, or even a 1964-1/2 model by them. In fact, if you ever have the chance to look at the serial (VIN) numbers on "64-1/2" cars, you'll see that they all begin with the number "5" for 1965.

However, around August/September 1964 some minor (and few significant changes) were made to the Mustang as the second (and true) "1965" model year production began - mainly the switch from a generator-based electrical system to an alternator-based one, as well as the addition of the Fastback model - and over the years, the Mustang enthusiasts began calling the early '65 cars "64-1/2's" to differentiate them from the later '65 cars that were built after August 1964.

PS - While we're on the subject, I've always found these particular Dan Brooks photos of the Product Salon interesting:

000-0072_img_std.jpg

000-0073_img_std.jpg

© Dan Brooks, courtesy of www.DutchMustang.nl

In the photos, you see a "true 1965 model year" Fastback sitting on the turn-table. The photos were taken during the 1964 Season of the Fair (as evidenced by the "Product Parade" display in the background of the top photo), but since the Fastback wouldn't have been available until early-to-mid September of 1964, I find it interesting that Ford would go to all the trouble and expense to ship that car to New York and have it hoisted up onto the turn-table for what would essentially be about one month of display time (this car does not appear in any of the 1965 Product Salon photos I've seen).

It also raises a question I've always had...

1965 model year production ended around July of 1965, and the 1966 models started up in August - so if they went to the trouble to put a new '65 model year car on display prior to the end of the '64 Fair season, did they ever put any 1966 model year cars on display just prior to the Fair closing in 1965?

So far I haven't ever seen a photo of one, but I'm always on the lookout for a '66...

I hope this helps!

Best Regards,

Kevin

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(this car does not appear in any of the 1965 Product Salon photos I've seen).

Why would they show a boring black early model '65 Mustang fastback, when by that time they could show a white GT 350 fastback, with blue racing stripes?

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Why would they show a boring black early model '65 Mustang fastback, when by that time they could show a white GT 350 fastback, with blue racing stripes?

Like this one?

000-0234_img_std.jpg

000-0235_img_std.jpg

© Dan Brooks, courtesy of www.DutchMustang.nl

FYI - This particular Shelby GT350 still exists, and resides in the Newark, NJ area...

Thanks for reminding me about this car - I think I may need to revise my 64-65 NYWF "Holy Grail" selection!

Best Regards,

Kevin

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BTW - The front-fender badging on the "boring" black Fastback indicates that the car was equipped with a 271hp, 289 High-Performance engine - not quite as lack-luster as it may first appear!

Best Regards,

Kevin

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<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->.....did they ever put any 1966 model year cars on displayed just prior to the Fair closing in 1965?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Hey, Yadda, that's a VERY good question! Why or why not, indeed? GM & Chrysler, too. The last month of the Fair was very busy, they could have reached a LOT of people.

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Yes the owner's name is Stanley Yelnats, and he lives at 1725 NW Beech St., Newark, NJ. He's single; travels a lot during the week, but leaves a light in the hallway to scare away prowlers at night; and keeps the keys to the car on a hook above the dryer in his laundry room...

Seriously though - the car is owned by a private owner in Newark. I don't know him personally, but he's listed in my Shelby American Automobile Club Registry (which of course was last published in 1997, so who knows if he still has the car).

Best Regards,

Kevin

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<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue"><!--/coloro-->Stanley Yelnats<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

Doesn't he have a brother named Reuben Nebuer?

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Man, I can't slip anything by you Randy!

Now for 50 more points, can you (without Googling) name the book that I borrowed this "palindromic" name from?

Best Regards,

Kevin

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That would be the Bible. Yelnats was one of the Babylonian guards who stood too close and got burned alive when King Nebuchadnezzar ordered the fiery furnace turned up to atomic glow level after Shadrach, Meshach & Abednego didn't even get singed. The Babylonians were ardent practioners of palindromic names for their children, in homage to the God of Linguistics.

P.S.- back in the 70's I was teaching a kids Sunday School class when I lived in Florida and I asked the kids if they remembered the previous week's lesson- who was the third servant of the Lord along with Shadrach and Meshach, who survived the fiery furnace?

One of the little boys answered "Horshack"?

[they'd been watching Welcome Back Kotter too much.... ] Ever since then, I always remember 'Shadrach, Meshach and Horshack'

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Hi Randy,

There may indeed be a "Yelnats" in the Bible, but the book I was thinking of was Holes by Louis Sachar - which by-the-way was a fairly entertaining movie as well, even if it was primarily meant for kids!

Best Regards,

Kevin

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I still own a 50 year old LP recording of Charles Laughton reciting the "Fiery Furnace". I've played it many times as a reminder of the talent this famous actor possessed.

Ray

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Looks like the Ford of today needs some serious help from Stanley Yelnats-- or somebody.

Losing the value of a Ford Mustang every minute?!

<a href="http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/25/news/companies/ford_2006_loss/index.htm?cnn=yes" target="_blank">Ford Posts Massive Loss</a>

I guess that's what happens when you bet your company on big, gas guzzling Trucks and SUVs... too bad Ford doesn't try to bring some of their European cars to the US Market - like the Mondeo, S-Max, or Galaxy. I think they would sell well here as long as gas prices stay high (like they are here on the West Coast).

Isn't it also interesting that Exxon/Mobil is posting record profits at the same time?

Kevin

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Something has to be done.

Some help given. Taxes on imports? Government financial incentives to offset retooling costs? Yet more new guidance? That big merger that is sometimes spoken of?

Some cuts, more cuts of one type of another, made. (pay above, or below? Production lines? More negotiation with union reps?)

Then new designs. New product that better answers demands.

I live in Michigan and Ford's record loss was the big news story. There is always some big news story about losses of one type or another in the auto industry, though. At least in the last two years.

There seem to be no easy answers. Everything leads to harm of someone, something.

Change has to come, somehow, though. Change has to come for Ford to survive.

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Guest

Hi Randy,

Since the Mustang was a mid-year introduction (with actual production beginning in March 1964), it was officially referred to as a "1965" model by Ford, and was never called a 1964, or even a 1964-1/2 model by them. In fact, if you ever have the chance to look at the serial (VIN) numbers on "64-1/2" cars, you'll see that they all begin with the number "5" for 1965.

However, around August/September 1964 some minor (and few significant changes) were made to the Mustang as the second (and true) "1965" model year production began - mainly the switch from a generator-based electrical system to an alternator-based one, as well as the addition of the Fastback model - and over the years, the Mustang enthusiasts began calling the early '65 cars "64-1/2's" to differentiate them from the later '65 cars that were built after August 1964.

PS - While we're on the subject, I've always found these particular Dan Brooks photos of the Product Salon interesting:

000-0072_img_std.jpg

000-0073_img_std.jpg

© Dan Brooks, courtesy of www.DutchMustang.nl

In the photos, you see a "true 1965 model year" Fastback sitting on the turn-table. The photos were taken during the 1964 Season of the Fair (as evidenced by the "Product Parade" display in the background of the top photo), but since the Fastback wouldn't have been available until early-to-mid September of 1964, I find it interesting that Ford would go to all the trouble and expense to ship that car to New York and have it hoisted up onto the turn-table for what would essentially be about one month of display time (this car does not appear in any of the 1965 Product Salon photos I've seen).

It also raises a question I've always had...

1965 model year production ended around July of 1965, and the 1966 models started up in August - so if they went to the trouble to put a new '65 model year car on display prior to the end of the '64 Fair season, did they ever put any 1966 model year cars on display just prior to the Fair closing in 1965?

So far I haven't ever seen a photo of one, but I'm always on the lookout for a '66...

I hope this helps!

Best Regards,

Kevin

definitely these documents are interesting as it apear that the fastback model which came as '65 only and sold as from september 64 was ready before. This specimen has some 64 hubcaps and color coordinated door lockers (as far as I can see on the docs). So it's the only one 64 and half fastback I ever see

To answer to your question regarding 66 models on the 65 worlds fair showroom, unfortunately I have no other doc that this one whith do not show the front end of the car to compare 65 vs 66 but you can see the "pony interior" that came in april 65 and is quite rare on 65 models and futhuremore the ext paint looks like a nightmist blue one which is a 66 color...

well, Mustang story has a lot of mysteries...

brgds from France

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Ponyboy,

Merci pour votre mots, et bienvenu au PTU!

'llo Bradd

nice to hear from you again

Guillaume-ponyboy

I post the pict of the "luxury" fastback I was talking about above.

I don't know where this pict comes from but it's an interesting doc of the second year season showing what could be a '66 specimen

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The Ford Mustang was introduced on April 17th 1964 at the NYWF after a major media blitz. The first few cars were built in a pilot plant near the Dearborn plant that would be the largest producer of this fastest selling US car ever. It is said that Ford serialized the first three cars such that sequence number 5F08F100001 was a white convertible, 5F07U100002 was a blue hardtop and 5F0??100003 was a RED model and engine unknown. These cars were not to be sold but rather to tour Canada as sales exhibits. Things did not work out as Ford planed, taking 22,000 orders on the very first day of introduction and selling every car that was built for sale...including 5F08F100001 to a Canadian pilot. It is not sure exactly where the next sequenced cars were planned to go but 5F08F100006 was one of the first 12 Mustangs to run the Magic Skyway track at the Ford Wonder Rotunda Exhibit. It is sometimes reported that all the Mustangs used were white convertibles with red interiors. That, I know for sure, is false. I remember watching a dark blue and a red convertible pass my eyes in the glassed tubes in my trip to the fair in 1964. The 1964 season cars I saw were all V8 cars. The ones I saw were all F-code 260 V8's although they had no engines in the cars. Even as a young kid, I got down on the floor to look under the cars and the engind had been removed. I read later that the engines, transmissions and gastanks were removed and stored in a warehouse back in Dearborn. The drivetrains and gas tanks were marked with the VIN numbers of the cars they came from but Ford did not pay close attention to matching them back with the chassis when the cars rotated out and the cars were reassembled for sale to Ford employees. The track guides were roughly torched off the subframes and axles and the first drivetrain that was closest to the car was the one put back in it seemed. In 1965, the Mustangs I saw were all 200 cid six cylinder convertibles and I personally rode in the back seat of a pale blue one with a white interior. The cars on the rotary tables outside the Wonder Rotunda were rotated out a few times a season. The one pictured here in this thread may be an early (so called 64-1/2) or a later one. Ford cut over the production the second weel of August 1964 as I was told by an expert with lots of Ford documentation. The early cars had a radiator support with fins rather than slots to cool the battery, a generator rather than an alternator, low mounted larger horns and a slew of little differences over the later cars. I have seen original "early" cars that do not have the "unimproved" hood commonly associated with the 1964-1/2. The car in the picture does not seem to have that hood either. In the pictures further down in this thread is pictured a 2+2 fastback with the high performance K-code 289 V8. This picture seems to be from 1964 but the 2+2 was not released until about October of 1964 and only as a "later" 1965 model. This car has the 1964 stainless wire wheel covers as the 1965/66 had the blue center on the spinner. I suspect this was one of the very first ones Ford ever made and may have been a non-production prototype. I wish I knew what I know now and would have gone over that car with a fine tooth comb. Sorry for all the rambling detail.

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Hi David - Welcome to PTU!

Great info, but I just wanted to clear up a couple of misconceptions…

You are correct about Mustangs 5F08F100001 & 5F07U100002, but 5F08F100003 was not a Red car, but instead, it was a Raven Black-Red Interior Magic Skyway convertible with a 260-V8 that was shipped to New York from Carron & Co. (Inkster, MI) on April 1, 1964.

The next 11 Mustangs 5F08F1000004-5F08F100014 were also 260-V8 Magic Skyway convertibles as well, with the following color breakdowns / shipping dates from Carron & Co. to NYC:

5F08F100004 – Raven Black-Red Interior / April 1, 1964

5F08F100005 – Raven Black-Red Interior / March 26, 1964

5F08F100006 – Wimbledon White-Red Interior / March 24, 1964

5F08F100007 – Wimbledon White-Red Interior / April 1, 1964

5F08F100008 – Wimbledon White-Red Interior / April 1, 1964

5F08F100009 – Guardsman Blue-Blue Interior / March 19, 1964

5F08F100010 – Guardsman Blue-Blue Interior / March 24, 1964

5F08F100011 – Guardsman Blue-Blue Interior / March 24, 1964

5F08F100012 – Rangoon Red-Black Interior / March 26, 1964

5F08F100013 – Rangoon Red-Black Interior / March 26, 1964

5F08F100014 – Rangoon Red-Black Interior / March 24, 1964

So far, 5F08F100006 is the only one of the '64 Season Mustangs to have surfaced...

Regarding the engine removal… I too had always read in the various Mustang publications that the engines were removed from all the cars, but I have recently corresponded with Bob Gurr (Disney Imagineer - who along with Roger Broggie and Lee Adams designed and installed the Magic Skyway “conveyor” system at the Ford Pavilion), and he is absolutely positive that the engines were not removed from the smaller Skyway cars – namely the Mustangs, Falcons, and Comets.

In addition, I have also seen a photo of a ’64 Falcon Skyway car with its hood raised, and sure enough, there’s definitely an engine in there, so I have to believe Mr. Gurr’s recollections about this one…

Finally, no disrespect intended, but there were no Pale Blue-White Interior Mustangs on the Magic Skyway in 1965. The Mustang colors that season were similar to 1964: Raven Black-Red Interior, Wimbledon White-Red Interior, Caspian Blue-Blue Interior, and Poppy Red-Black Interior, with 3 cars in each color combination as well...

There were 16 Tropical Turquoise (which is sort of a light-blue color) Falcons that year - but I believe they had Black Interiors. Perhaps one of these might be the car you remember riding in?

Incidentally, one of our PTU Members owns 5F08T383386 – a Wimbledon White-Red Magic Skyway Mustang from the ’65 Season!

Best Regards,

Kevin

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