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C. Aybar

New Queens Museum is UGLY!

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For the countless millions that will be spent on renovating this beautiful structure into an ugly monster:

<a href="http://www.metropolismag.com/html/urbanjournal_0102/queens_museum.html" target="_blank">http://www.metropolismag.com/html/urbanjou...ens_museum.html</a>

For more information about the bidding process that took place last year, and to obtain interesting information about hthe building, click here:

<a href="http://www.nyc.gov/html/ddc/pdf/qa.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.nyc.gov/html/ddc/pdf/qa.pdf</a>

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But Charles...it is oh so CHIC!!!

We world's fair dinosaurs simply don't have the cultural sophistication to appreciate it.

It's about the art, dahling, the art!!

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I cannot tell from the photpgraph if the building is ugly or not, but NYC Building is no longer the art deco survivor of The Big Fair. I am all for preserving and protecting the NYC Building, but the new design forever alters the structure and that makes me sad.

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I would like to see the design for the building that goes over the Grand Central parkway.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C. Aybar:

For the countless millions that will be spent on renovating this beautiful structure into an ugly monster:

<a href="http://www.metropolismag.com/html/urbanjournal_0102/queens_museum.html" target="_blank">http://www.metropolismag.com/html/urbanjou...ens_museum.html</a>

For more information about the bidding process that took place last year, and to obtain interesting information about hthe building, click here:

<a href="http://www.nyc.gov/html/ddc/pdf/qa.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.nyc.gov/html/ddc/pdf/qa.pdf</a> <HR></blockquote>

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<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C. Aybar:

For more information about the bidding process that took place last year, and to obtain interesting information about hthe building, click here:

<a href="http://www.nyc.gov/html/ddc/pdf/qa.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.nyc.gov/html/ddc/pdf/qa.pdf</a> <HR></blockquote>

This document states many times that the NYC building does not have "Landmark" status. In fact it says the only structure in the park to have that protection is the Unisphere.

Wouldn't it behoove groups who wish to preserve these WF artifacts to have "Landmark" status assigned to all remaining structures in FMCP? I am surprised by the lack of interest from the historical preservation organizations in the NYC area.

Who was the group that pushed for "Landmark" status for Grand Central Station after Penn Station was torn down in the mid-60s? Do we need more destruction to prod the masses into action?

How tough is it to obtain the required protection under this "Landmark" program? Anyone been through the process?

The NYS building would be a prime candidate for this designation and may give it a reprieve from anxious politicians eager to tear it down.

Randy.

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<a href="http://amfmonorail.expoarchive.com/" target="_blank">AMF Monorail Research Project</a>

[This message has been edited by AMFMonorail (edited 08-13-2003).]

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Today there is an article in the NY Times on the restoration of the huge Pabst Brewery complex in downtown Milwaukee. This is an amazing complex of buildings that resembles an old fortress in the near downtown of Milwaukee. The place has been abandoned for a decade and it is about to be renovated into an entertainment/housing complex. The article stated that the first step was to do a "historical survey" so that the buildings could be placed on the National Register of Historic Places. This made them eligible for $100 million in tax credits to defray the $350 million price tag for the renovation. That's nearly 1/3 the cost of the renovation!

<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/13/business/13PABS.html" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/13/business/13PABS.html</a>

Perhaps "Landmark" status would be better served if people worked to get the NY State Pavilion on the National Register of Historic Places. I'm not sure what the "rules" are for that, but a 33% downpayment on renovation is some serious talking!

[This message has been edited by Bill Young (edited 08-13-2003).]

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As with all things that involve the government, it ain't that easy...

I own a small construction company that has been involved in two projects at the former Fort Devens Army Base in Ayer, MA. A large section of the base, and all the buildings in it, is on the National Register. I've seen the nomination documents, and the survey alone is several hundred pages. I can dig out that information if someone is really serious.

The tax credits are another matter. First, they are just that - credits. You qualify for them after the work is complete. No money comes to you - EVER. Only tax CREDITS in the future. To qualify, all of the work - including materials and methods of istallation - must be previously approved by, and inspected by the National Parks Service. I have all of the qualification documents and applications in my possession. This severely limits anything you do to the buildings including floorplans, materials, colors, etc. In the case of both projects I was on, the owners opted to forgo the tax credits because the National Parks restrictions made the buildings unsuitable for a modern, functioning office, and because the delays of waiting for approvals and inspections would have nearly offset any future tax credits.

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A summary of the process to register for "Historical" status from the National Park Service web site: <a href="http://www.cr.nps.gov/nr/listing.htm" target="_blank">http://www.cr.nps.gov/nr/listing.htm</a>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>Listing a Property: What is the Process?

Historic places are nominated to the National Register by the State Historic Preservation officer (SHPO) of the State in which the property is located, by the Federal Preservation Officer (FPO) for properties under Federal ownership or control, or by the Tribal Preservation Officer (TPO) if the property is on tribal lands. Anyone can prepare a nomination to the National Register; generally nomination forms are documented by property owners, local governments, citizens or SHPO staff. Nomination forms are submitted to a State review board, composed of professionals in the fields of American history, architectural history, architecture, prehistoric and historic archeology, and other related disciplines. The review board makes a recommendation to the SHPO either to approve the nomination if, in the board's opinion, it meets the National Register criteria, or to disapprove the nomination if it does not.

During the time the proposed nomination is reviewed by the SHPO, property owners and local officials are notified of the intent to nominate and public comment is solicited. Owners of private property are given an opportunity to concur in or object to the nomination. If the owner of a private property, or the majority of private property owners for a property or district with multiple owners, objects to the nomination, the historic property cannot be listed in the National Register. In that case, the SHPO may forward the nomination to the National Park Service only for a determination of eligibility. If the historic property is listed or determined eligible for listing, then the Advisory Council on Historic Preservation must be afforded the opportunity to comment on any Federal project that may affect it. (See the Results of Listing page and our publication entitled My Property's Important to America's Heritage, What Does That Mean: Answers to Questions for Owners of Historic Properties for further information about the meaning of National Register listing.)

The SHPO forwards nominations to the National Park Service to be considered for registration if a majority of private property owners has not objected to listing. During the National Register's evaluation of nomination documentation, another opportunity for public comment is provided by the publication of pending nominations in the Federal Register.

What are the Criteria For Listing?

The National Register's standards for evaluating the significance of properties were developed to recognize the accomplishments of all peoples who have made a significant contribution to our country's history and heritage. The criteria are designed to guide State and local governments, Federal agencies, and others in evaluating potential entries in the National Register.

Criteria for Evaluation

The quality of significance in American history, architecture, archeology, engineering, and culture is present in districts, sites, buildings, structures, and objects that possess integrity of location, design, setting, materials, workmanship, feeling, and association, and:

A. That are associated with events that have made a significant contribution to the broad patterns of our history; or

B. That are associated with the lives of persons significant in our past; or

C. That embody the distinctive characteristics of a type, period, or method of construction, or that represent the work of a master, or that possess high artistic values, or that represent a significant and distinguishable entity whose components may lack individual distinction; or

D. That have yielded or may be likely to yield, information important in prehistory or history.

Criteria Considerations

Ordinarily cemeteries, birthplaces, graves of historical figures, properties owned by religious institutions or used for religious purposes, structures that have been moved from their original locations, reconstructed historic buildings, properties primarily commemorative in nature, and properties that have achieved significance within the past 50 years shall not be considered eligible for the National Register. However, such properties will qualify if they are integral parts of districts that do meet the criteria or if they fall within the following categories:

a. A religious property deriving primary significance from architectural or artistic distinction or historical importance; or

b. A building or structure removed from its original location but which is primarily significant for architectural value, or which is the surviving structure most importantly associated with a historic person or event; or

c. A birthplace or grave of a historical figure of outstanding importance if there is no appropriate site or building directly associated with his or her productive life; or

d. A cemetery which derives its primary importance from graves of persons of transcendent importance, from age, from distinctive design features, or from association with historic events; or

e. A reconstructed building when accurately executed in a suitable environment and presented in a dignified manner as part of a restoration master plan, and when no other building or structure with the same association has survived; or

f. A property primarily commemorative in intent if design, age, tradition, or symbolic value has invested it with its own exceptional significance; or

g. A property achieving significance within the past 50 years if it is of exceptional importance.

How Old Does the Property Have to Be?

Generally, properties eligible for listing in the National Register are at least 50 years old. Properties less than 50 years of age must be exceptionally important to be considered eligible for listing.

How Long Does the Nominations Process Take?

The process varies from State to State depending on State workload, planning, and registration priorities, and the schedule of the review board. The process takes a minimum of 90 days to fulfill all of the review and notification requirements provided that a complete and fully documented nomination form has been completed for the property.

Upon submission to the National Park Service, a decision on whether to list the property is made within 45 days. <HR></blockquote>

"Landmark" status is a higher level of consideration seen at this website:

<a href="http://www.cr.nps.gov/nhl/QA.htm" target="_blank">http://www.cr.nps.gov/nhl/QA.htm</a>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><HR>How are National Historic Landmarks different from other historic properties listed in the National Register of Historic Places?

Landmarks have been recognized by the Secretary of the Interior as possessing national significance. Nationally significant properties help us understand the history of the Nation and illustrate the nationwide impact of events or persons associated with the property, its architectural type or style, or information potential. A nationally significant property is of exceptional value in representing or illustrating an important theme in the history of the Nation. Properties listed on the National Register are primarily of State and local significance. With a State or locally significant property, its impact is restricted to a smaller geographic area. For example, many historic schools are listed on the National Register because of the historically important role they played in educating individuals in the community or State in which they are located. Central High School, in Little Rock, Arkansas, is nationally significant because it was the site of the first major confrontation over implementation of the Supreme Court's 1954 decision outlawing racial segregation in public schools. The city's resistance led to President Eisenhower's decision to send Federal troops to enforce desegregation at this school in 1957.

All National Historic Landmarks are included in the National Register which is the official list of the Nation's historic properties worthy of preservation. Landmarks constitute more than 2300 of almost 76,000 entries in the National Register; the others are of State and local significance. The process for listing a property in the National Register is different from that for Landmark designation with different criteria and procedures used. Some properties are recommended as nationally significant when they are nominated to the National Register, but before they can be designated as National Historic Landmarks, they must be evaluated by the National Park Service's National Historic Landmark Survey, reviewed by the National Park System Advisory Board, and recommended to the Secretary of the Interior. Some properties listed in the National Register are subsequently identified by the Survey as nationally significant; others are identified for the first time during Landmark theme studies or other special studies. Both the National Historic Landmarks and the National Register programs are administered by the National Park Service under the Secretary of the Interior.<HR></blockquote>

Randy.

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<a href="http://amfmonorail.expoarchive.com/" target="_blank">AMF Monorail Research Project</a>

[This message has been edited by AMFMonorail (edited 08-14-2003).]

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Im wondering,now that the building of the new ice rink has slowed down or stopped,what are the plans for the old ice rink?Will it stay open?Im assuming QMA wont get the extra space they want.

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I passed by the construction Sunday night after attending the US OPEN and was shocked at how massive it looks. Granted, it was very dark but it looks so out of place. frown.gif

The well-lighted fountains and the Unisphere did look spectacular, though smile.gif

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