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#1 Jim

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 07:06 PM

We all respect the preservation of history and respect for people who did great and courageous things. April 14 and 15 mark the 100th anniversary of the loss of Titanic. National Geographic channel has been running two specials--one hosted by James Cameron and one hosted by Robert Ballard--and they are outstanding. Both Ballard and Cameron has deep and abiding respect for Titanic and its resting place at the bottom of the Atlantic. Cameron's special includes a number of dedicated hsitorians and there is one scene when the main historian of the Titanic Historical Society talks about the pefume bottles given to the society. As he talks about those 100 year old bottles, he is moved to tears. Clearly, this is a man who not only respects the past but treasures it.

If you get a chance, these specials appear to be available on Nat Geo all week. They are absolutely excellent.

#2 magikbilly

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 11:10 PM

Hi Jim,

I was not so impressed by all of it. I have been working in my own small ways preserving liner history and exposing "problem sales" since 2001. I am not a "rivet counter" nor an expert. But, maybe someone can explain why the new J.C. sinking simulation that will be aired (or has been?) shows the #1 funnel falling to port when there is a clearly a section of #1 funnel steam whistle jammed into the starboard aft forecastle deck railing? Lightoller saw and said it fell to Port, part of it is stull stick there. I know what the Baker said in his testimony, but now the stern almost capsizes to port - so extreme? The A deck windows on the simulated bow wreck section aft of the #2 funnel just arent there, etc. Titanic was not a bannana and did not behave like on. The break point was moved way forward of where it was claimed before - but WHY? Ballard says "look, but don't touch" - where'd he get that amphorae? He landed on Titanic's deck too, remember. He is also against salvage strongly - but then why did he ask the Smithsonian in the early days if they would exhibit artifcts he could or would raise? Was his expedition not the among the first or the very first to "bump into something" and accidentaly bring up bits of the ship that were "immeditely washed overboard"? Now he wants to paint the wreck and has applied for a permit to do so - that is as intrusive and disruptive to the site as anything I have heard since 1985 (apart from the truly insane proposals...but that line blurs...).

Best,
Eric

"I never heard of the Empress of Ireland" - Ballard, Lost Liners 1993 (more passenger deaths than Titanic, 1914)
"I thought I knew everything about the Titanic, then I heard about the Guarantee Group..." - Ballard 2011/12(?)

http://northatlantic..._Departure.html
http://www.titanic-t...pilaster#p11664

#3 Jim

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:28 PM

I am only going by what I have seen on Nat Geo and what I have read over the years. I am unfamiliar with what you have written. In any event, PBS aired an astounding special tonight. "Saving The Titanic" was devoted to the men below decks who worked on keeping the ship afloat as long as possible and keeping the electrical system functioning so that the pumps, lights and wireless would operate. I realize that Titanic does not really fit into this site devoted to worlds fairs, but I am moved by the fact that we are quickly approaching the 100th anniversary of a pivotal moment in 20th Century history. I apologize if this is not the proper place to share thoughts on this topic.

#4 magikbilly

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:14 PM

Hi Jim :)

No no!! I believe this is an inclusive board - your topic is most welcome, just from a history viewpoint. And off topic ? No way - among the most impressive 1939 structures was the Marine Transportation Building with its blue double prows, cowl vent exterior lights and mosaic mural. I made a liner related post too - probably bored folks to death with talk of pilasters and mahogany.
I should and will apologize for sounding off so stringly. NONE of it was directed at you Jim, I trust you know. This month has been crazy - every manner of forgery down to toilet paper supposedly taken from Harland and Wolffm where she was built. I have seen a fragment of common rust (not Titanic) for $55,000...From the numbers, 705 survivors, one could calculate each person left the shipiwith 23 items in thoer pockets. Of course, first thing I do on a sinking ship with impending death looming is grab a table and a few plates of each pattern and stationary...A paintchip from a lifeboat that was never exhibited (because it doesn't exist) at $10,000 (free shipping).
Anway, its all good :) I am sorry if I offended ot made you feel you posted something out of order. NOT my intention. I was sounding off to friends, be my actions good or bad thats all I was doing. And, of course, that simulation and Big Bob have touched a nerve - the one you mentioned about respect and reverence.

Enjoy!
Eric :)

Attached File  DEANsigEKL.jpg   91.87KB   15 downloads
Hand tinted unique candid photograph aboard the R.M.S. Adriatic, signed to me personally by Miss Millvina Dean, youngest and last survivor of the Titanic. The Adriatic took Miss Dean, her mother and brother back to England after the Titanic disaster. Five years earlier, in 1907, Titanic's Captain Smith brougt the Adriatic over on her maiden voyage. He was interviewed in New York and said "...I never saw a wreck and have never been wrecked, nor was I ever in any predicament that threatened to end in disaster of any sort." May 16, 1907

Attached File  MISS DEAN.jpg   370KB   14 downloads
Miss Millvina Dean (2 February 1912 - 31 May 2009 - anniversary of launch), taken the day she signed my photograph, last week of September, 2008.

#5 Jim

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Posted 11 April 2012 - 07:52 PM

Oh, Eric--not at all! I did not feel offended by you in any way. I always enjoy your posts because I, too, am fascinated by the 1939 NYWF and I am impressed by your photographs and your knowledge of that great fair. I also know that you have a love of great 20th Century passenger liners and know a great deal about them. I've always been interested in Titanic because I think it really was the end of an era and certainly the end of the Edwardian confidence in the invincibility of wealthy men and giant machines and the certainty of western civilization. Titanic was a microcosm of western society in 1912 and the events that played out on that ship on April 14-15 "jarred two hemispheres" as Thomas Hardy writes in "Convergence of the Twain." It is also interesting to remember that Titanic was only the beginning. Just three years later, Lusitania was torpedoed and over 2,000 died and then those insane battles (The Somme, The Marne, Verdun, Gallipoli, Vimy Ridge, Chateau Thierry....) with hundreds of thousands of lives wasted for nothing--all that shattered whatever was left of Edwardian certainty.

I am so impressed that you have an autograph of a Titanic survivor! Obviously, she was a baby and I recognize her name. How many babies were saved that night--do you know? I live near Cooperstown, NY. Oddly, one Titanic victim (Albert Reyerson--I think it is Albert) is buried there (his body washed ashore somewhere in Newfoundland). Also, his sister, who survived the sinking, is buried there. She died in 1939. They were returning from a trip to Europe upon hearing a family member (a brother, I think) had been killed in an automobile accident. Amazing stuff.

Jim

#6 magikbilly

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 12:15 AM

Hi Jim :)

I am glad - I did not mean to offend. Those terible, horrid battles you mentioned - they cost lives and history as well. The glass neded for gas masks was made of - glass negatives! An incalculable loss. I recognized the name Ryerson right away! A "popular" family among researchers. I hope this is of interest to you - I just want to illustrate the gulf between what is said, and what is:
While there is a marker or memorial in Ciiperstown http://www.encyclope...memorial-6.html, local myth strikes again - Mr. Ryerson's body was never identified, recovered or interred as such. There is, despite what certain museums will insist, not a single authentic item that was "washed ahore" in Haifax, Nova Scotia - Nefoundland, yes. It follows the current path.
From ET (a site I belong and have contributed Mauretania informaton to): "Mr Arthur Larned Ryerson, 61, from Haverford, PA, USA boarded the Titanic at Cherbourg (ticket number 17608, price £262 7s 6d, Cabin B57/63/66) with his wife Mrs Emily Ryerson and their children Emily Borie Ryerson, John Borie Ryerson and Suzette Parker Ryerson. Their eventual destination was Cooperstown, NY. Mrs Ryerson also brought her maid Miss Victorine Chaudanson."
It gets really interesting here: "Unknown to Arthur was the presence on the Titanic of a distant (4th) cousin. William Edwy Ryseron worked as a steward in the dining saloon."
"Arthur Ryerson was lost in the sinking, his body, if recovered, was never identified." It would have been buried at sea by one of the recovery ships, along with over 300 others. It was his wife Emily who died in 1939 and is buried in Lakewood, Cooperstown along with the Governess Miss Bowen (ticket number 17608, d.1945) and daughter Susan "Suzette" (d. 1921) and son John (d. 1986). Daughter Emily's burial location is unknown (d. 1960). MIss Chanderson (d.1962) and is buried in Pennsylvania. All those saved were in Boat 4, which contained only 36 peope and was lowered berween 1:47 and 1:52 (LATE indeed). It was one of four boats later tied together by Officer Lowe for passenger transfer.
Cooperstown! I have a photo here of the Baseball Hall of Fame in opening day in 1939! Now, to find it....

Another:
Attached File  EvaHart1912.2012signedphoto.jpg   75.51KB   6 downloads
Miss Eva Hart (January 31, 1905 - February 14, 1996), signed photo, August 1988.

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Miss EvaHart at home, August, 1988

Best wishes alwys and thank you for your post,
Eric






Berst wishes,
Eric

#7 xl5er

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 06:35 AM

I'd heard the MS Balmoral was planning a westward voyage retracing the Titanic's route, and now I see the MV Journey is sailing eastward to the spot of the sinking for a memorial. I seriously hope they do not bump into each other.

The passengers on the Balmoral were photographed in Titanic era dress. I assume all participants' motives are respectful but boy that kinda gives me the creeps.

http://www.ny1.com/c...memorial-cruise

#8 Jim

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 05:19 PM

Miss Eva Hart is interviewed in the IMAX film, Titanica. She remembers that night very well (I would guess she was aboiut six or so). She recalls that her father had given her a large teddy bear and she left it in the stateroom when she and her mother climbed into the lifeboat. She said she never wanted another one. I have seen her in other interviews as well and her memories of that night were always crisp and clear.

As for the memorial cruise, I am not certain what to make of it either. I understand there are two: One leaving from Southampton and one leaving from Halifax, I think. The former had to reverse course yesterday because a passenger had heart trouble and they returned to a distance where a helicopter could fly from Ireland to rescue the man. I do not know if the cruise will be completed or not.

And you are correct, Eric, it is Arthur Reyerson. He does have a memorial marker in Cooperstown, however, and an article in the Syracuse Post Standard some years ago told the story. It must be that Emily, his wife, was also buried there in 1939 when she died. The New York Historical Association (a private historical society in Cooperstown connected with the Farner's Museum) has opened a Titanic exhibition. Evidently, Arthur Reyerson and family were, indeed, racing home for Arthur Jr.'s funeral scheduled for April 19. He was on break from Yale and killed in an automobile accident. Arthur Sr. insisted that his younger son, John, be allowed in a lifeboat when a crew member balked at the boy climbing into the boat. Arthur pointed out the boy was "only thirteen" and he was allowed in. Then the crew member shouted "no more boys". The news article states that Mr. Reyerson made it clear that the was not about to have another son die. The Reyerson family were great patrons of Cooperstown and I believe they helped establish the Otsego Country Club on Otsego Lake (Glimmerglass). Arthur Reyerson is memorialized there.

I found this info in The Cooperstown Crier (no kidding), the local newspaper. It also states that John Reyerson helped Walter Lord with A Night To Remember but would otherwise never discuss Titanic or that night. TCM will air A Night To Remember at 10 PM EDT on April 14.

I clicked on that Titanic link you offered and the info is interesting. It always surprises me when it is called SS Titanic rather than RMS Titanic. How could someone put that on a plaque?

Whatever else we remember as we look back 100 years, there were remarkable displays of dignity and courage that terrible night.

#9 Mary Ellen

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 01:54 AM

Hello all. Never know what you will find on the PTU site. Interesting discussion here. Been a Titanic follower since I read Walter Lord's book "A Night to Remember" back in 1968. I watched the part 2 portion of the History Channel show where they did the virtual recreation of the wreck. Never ceases to intrigue me.

#10 Jim

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 06:00 PM

I had the chance to speak to a woman in Halifax today. She shared stories about the Titanic commemorations which have taken place over the past few days leading up to April 15, the 100th anniversary. She attended services in Fairview Cemetery when the largest number of recovered bodies are buried and she said there were also commemorations at Mt. Olivet, a Roman Catholic cemetery, where other victims are buried. She said it was a very emotional few days in Halifax.

#11 magikbilly

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:35 PM

Hi Jim,

I have been getting several emails "feeds" from the cruises. A mix of somber and bizarre. One cruise was noted for a 10 yo passenger who stalked the deck everyday dressed as Captain Smith with fake beard and all. Tonight was the 18TH. A century since Rostron's Carpathia dropped off Titanic's boats at the WSL Pier and then went back to 54 to discharge Titanic's survivors. If you watch the cameron film, they showed the Statue heading the wrong direction and post torch-restroration too. And the vantage is one Carpathia could never be at that depth without grounding!

Best wishes,
Eric

#12 magikbilly

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:50 PM

Hi All,

I thought you guys might enjoy this. I did this with the new WHOI imagery. I was trying to peel back some rust and years - maybe in 1985, but now now. I took much license - those familar with the wreck will see many omissions and errors. Look for not one but two great ladies. Enjoy. Colors on hull ok (looking red here) but strong, bottom way to green.

Eric :)

Attached File  titanic_MM7985_rmst_starboard_003.jpg   377.49KB   17 downloads
Original WHOI imagery © WHOI

Attached File  titan12.jpg   1.59MB   16 downloads
Redux © WHOI

#13 Jim

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 07:36 PM

It would be 100 years ago today that J. Bruce Ismay was subpoened to testify at a Senate hearing (held in NYC) about what happened. His reputation and honor were ruined by his actions. The next day Charles Lightoller testified and the world got a glimpse of a true yet humble hero. He lived the rest of his life with real dignity. He even captained a ship which helped rescue British troops from Dunkirk in 1940.

#14 magikbilly

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 02:19 AM

Hi All,

 

 102 years ago today Titanic sailed on her first and last voyage. In reading these old posts one thing is clear - I can not type ;)

I don't mean to confuse people either - I just read some other threads where I started talking about things you guys likely are not familar with. I get MYSELF confused when writing posts thinking everyone knows what I am saying when I really can't express myself well and get the "audiences" (my friends) mixed up. :( Thanks for putting up with me everyone. Many of you kn - I have posted about my health these last yearts.  I don't recognize my own old posts anymore.

It is hard to sing a song properly when the lyrics seem new and the music is Fairly unrecognizable. Like Norman Thayer said "It's all new to me". I am having a heck of a time just hitting the right keys (on the keyboard).

 

Did ya'll see Miss Dean's portrait in the Titanic wreck colorized above? About the middle of the hull section...

 

Best wishes,

                       Eric

 

Transient global...what? ;)



#15 Eric Paddon

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Posted 16 April 2014 - 11:35 AM

I used to be a pretty big Titanic buff.    I read "A Night To Remember" when I was nine and I got hooked.    When the wreck was found in 85 it was one of the most exciting times of my life and I still have the news coverage of those first reports that I taped (some of which looks really laughable with hindsight given how Ballard misinterpreted a lot of the initial images).      There was a time when I was heavily involved in Titanic discussion groups but those days came to an end sadly because of the very horrible attitude I discovered among a good many people in them that often made good discussion possible.      One thing that I've enjoyed so much about this place over the years, even as my participation at times comes and goes, is that never once has there been an unfriendly word or a clash of egos or a difference of opinion that wasn't said in a friendly manner.    It's always been "peace through understanding" in the truest sense!

 

When I got a new computer last month giving me Windows 8 for the first time, I made sure to buy a new piece of software that allows me to keep playing the old "Ttitanic: Adventure Out Of Time" game from the late 90s.   Primitive as it is, it's still a fascinating way to "tour" the ship.    Maybe someday we'll get something like that for the Fair itself!






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