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JonasClark

Newcomer - Fountains and water at the fair

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New member, but I've been reading the forum for years, and been interested in the 64-65 fair since I found a guidebook as a teen in the early 90s. Fountains and water features, both the beauty and the technology, have always been my bag, and the Seattle World's Fair left most (but by no means all) of its fountains behind, but it seems the New York fair got rid of almost everything...

Should I post my questions and comments on ALL the 1964-65 displays here, or put a thread about each one in its zone's forum?

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Thank you! I'll just throw stuff out here, and see what others can add. I'm sure I'll learn a lot more than I'll teach in here... Everyone who knows more, about questions I ask or anything at all, please join in! Any detail photos people have, such as during construction or with pools dry, please post - I collect these shots. I used to have a lot more photos, which were among those lost in an HD failure last year.

<br><br>Fountains of Progress:

I've seen zero photos of these. I know that both provided a moving display, though the descriptions seem to indicate moving nozzles as opposed to simply variable-speed pumps or valves to vary heights.&nbsp; Does anyone have photographs of them, or memories of them? The North fountain seems to have had a nautilus-like spiral of water jets projecting almost horizontally, with all of them rising mechanically, those toward the center making the longest sweep and those around the outside showing the least change, until the centermost jet was almost vertical; then the process would run in reverse. South may or may not have had any actions taking place; it is described as having a sunken center pool with a tiered array of bubbler nozzles, with five arched jets coming from the edge of the outer pool, each with a different height and distance. Are these pools the ones which have recently been given plaques titling them the "Fountain of the Planet of the Apes" and the "Fountain of the Planet of the Grapes of Wrath"?<br><br>Solar Fountain:

Rotating fountain nozzles have been around since before 1900, but the nozzles I see in the photos aren't a type I know. Typically there are two types; in one, the spray nozzles are angled and provide the thrust, while in the other, there are separate (usually underwater) angled drive nozzles that do the job, leaving the rotating top to be anything from a single, offset vertical jet ("lariat") to multiple jets to a flat fan spray. The only video footage I've seen has the sprays not moving, but rotating nozzles do tend to get stuck, especially the older all-metal ones. Some newer ones use teflon bearings, which work well as long as the intake is screened so grit can't get in.

<br><br>The Solar Fountain's upper ring, covering the vertical riser for the spiky dingbat sun, often appears low or is shut off entirely. I've also seen only one example, a video clip, showing water coming from the tips of the sun's points. Perhaps the upper ring was shut off to curb drift? Fountain pools usually have a valve which admits more water if the level gets too low, but overspray still soaks people and ground. <br><br>Lighting - It had the amber lights behind the portholes (did these flicker?), forty white lights in the pool (four for each of the ten spinner nozzles) and... more white lights in the top to light the upper spray ring and sun dingbat on top?

<br><br>Lunar Fountain:

Compliment to the Solar Fountain, and I believe the inner dome was the same shape. Two basic water effects here. The big mushroom produced the loud sound heard in video footage; it would have been thrown from a slit running all the way around the top edge of the dome, and this nozzle would have had to be a ring with a hollow center. This effect took a lot of water pressure. The other effect was the arches, and it looks like there were 14 or 16 of these; they're not always on, meaning they had a separate pump, and when they are on, they're not always landing perfectly in the outer light wells as they should. I'm sure each nozzle had a valve on the pipe for fine adjustment, though adjusting one would be a time-consuming process because turning one down would make the others go slightly up!

Perhaps here, too, the upper arches were turned off at times to curb overspray.

<br><br>Lighting - I see three sets of lights here. The outer lights are in three groups here. The outer lights have scalloped shields like those on the avenue fountains, but some photos of these show what appear to be sparkles on the inner surface at each point; possibly small mirrors? Next in are single lights, also one for each arch stream. But at the center is the questionable part; construction photos show what looks like a spray nozzle ring, with many thick stubs on top. This was the set of lights for the dome and mushroom, and lit the mushroom from beneath; they must have flickered somehow? But also: look closely at photos... There are little sparkles on the dome under the water! Are these bits of mirror, reflecting the lights below, or are they pinholes letting out light from within? Or are they the same tiny type of flickering light...?

<br><br>Astral Fountain

A real piece of work, this, despite offering no changing lights or water patterns. The outer carriage, as shown in construction shots, sat on wheels which ran in a circular track. Nine supports connected the cage to the center, both at the top and middle, and one of those at the top had a supply pipe slung below which ran water to the outer ring, which in turn sent water down to the stars. There must have been a drive at the top, where the big cylinder sits, and chances are it was electric as opposed to a gear-and-turbine drive from water pressure since, apparently, the stars needed power, too**. <br><br>The eight-point stars in the center of each curving three-star row had the water jets, but were those on the bottom row actually angled to appear to be the motive power behind the rotation? The water streams would have swayed backward anyway with the rotation.

Early photos seem to show the center ring covering the entire central core support. In later shots, this goes only partway up. Pressure problems, or overspray problems? I've seen a photo showing just this center spray drifting across the concrete, so I suspect the latter. The outer sprays may have suffered both from overspray and perhaps from technical issues; the top section would have required maintenance to TWO slip-ring assemblies; one to transfer electrical power from stationary to rotating parts, the other to do the same with water.

<br><br>Lighting - There seem to have been three sets here. One was the ring of outer up-lights in the pool, shining up on the stars. The second set was for the inner spray ring. **But apparently the water-spraying stars had a light AND jet in the center of each?? Someone here has one of those stars; can they please explain how theirs is built? And, for that matter, where they got it?

<br><br>Fountain of the Planets

The big one, ranking among the best and biggest fountain shows ever built. There have been perhaps seven mega-sized water shows built and, thankfully, only two of them are no longer around, but those two were extra special. This one has me puzzled... The number one thing I really want to find is large, clear, detailed photos of the mechanics, either from above or from on the platforms. Eventually I'd like to map out the entire array: fountain pipes and nozzles and their effects, fireworks launch tubes, light boxes, etc. <br><br>Does anyone know whether this show contained any rotating nozzles, and which ones moved in what ways, or anything like that? The info page claims that several nozzles and manifolds/headers were either pneumatically or hydraulically movable, but no video I've ever seen shows effects moving in that way; things simply change height, which was done using electric or pneumatic valves in the pipes. Other companies tried these valves for fountain shows, incidentally; they don't tent to have a very long life. I do know the 1939 show had a few moving nozzles, and have seen illustrations of the rather ingenious mechanics, which used a long loop of chain to move all the nozzles in a circle inward or outward in synch.

<br><br>Lighting - The show used light boxes with sliding, curved color filters, but I don't really know what colors were available; I assume they used red, blue and green for additive mixing, and either had a blackout douser or could be switched off in groups. The Lagoon of Nations show here in '39 used light boxes with both a warm lamp and a cool lamp to get the most out of all colors, and these had a hexagonal, rotating color box around each set of lights, giving red, blue, green, yellow, clear/white or blackout.

Fireworks: Like the '39 show, but with 464 launchers; '39 had 300. A clear plastic cover, like the cap on a Pringles can, kept water out before firing, but it must have had a way to easily empty out collected water before reloading. Ignition was probably electrical. The '39 show's fireworks shells were done by John Craig, who had developed noiseless launches, no report. Did the '64 show's fireworks also launch silently? It wasn't until the 70s or 80s that Disney developed noiseless shots which used compressed air in place of the firing charge.

<br><br>Other fountains

Not much going on with the Fountain of the Continents, etc. But I'm also looking for photos of interesting water features in or around pavilions, such as those in Kodak or the cars-floating-on-water.Kodak had a spray ring falling into a pool with some absolutely stunning brass dandelion sculptures, and I hope someone saved those. Did any other pavilions have any extra-special fountains? There's also video footage of a fountain with white trees carrying revolving finned pinwheels that seem to have flags on them, possibly driven by falling water; where was this, and are there any good, clear photos of it? Many fountain engineers have enjoyed putting kinetic aspects into sculptural fountains, having water tilt buckets or spin wheels; the great fountains in Basel by Jean Tiguely are an excellent example of this, using water pressure to drive multiple sculptures performing nonsensical tasks, scooping water or slinging and sloshing it around. There must have been some kinetic sculpture at the fair, besides the amazing Tower of the Four Winds, and this flag fountain shows there was at least one kinetic sculptural fountain.<br>

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OH my gosh- where to start. We have answers to many of your questions, and a gazillion photos, including some with the water turned off where the nozzles can be seen. Even one of the Astral fountain with the water not only turned off but the pool empty, revealing a lot.

The flag kinetic fountain was in the Chrysler moat. The flags represented the countries where Chrysler did business. I'd seen a lot of still pictures but didn't realize the flags spun around, driven by water jets, until I saw some film footage on Youtube a few years ago.

Don't forget the fountain in front of the Formica House. I think there was an indoor fountain at Coca Cola. I'm mentally cruising through several thousand photos from memory. Of course the Fountains of the Fairs had big water jets. We've got lots of photos of the two Fountains of Progress, but I'm not sure I remember moving nozzles. Of course that wouldn't show up in still photos unless we did a lot of side-by-side comparisons.

Oh yes, GM had fountains in the pools at the main front entrance.

Morman Pavilion had a spectacular pool with lilies, but I don't think any fountains. The Festival of Gas, though, I think DID have fountains. Tower of Light had a moat, I think with fountains. Minnesota had water and canoes, but I don't think any fountains.

Garden of Meditation had a pond, but I don't think a fountain.

Belgian Village had a water wheel, but no fountains I'm aware of.

I think Ford might have had a fountain in the pool INSIDE their main entrance. Will have to check photos on that. Would have been right behind the 1890's first Ford automobile.

Schaeffer had a fountain right in the middle of their main dining room (indoors).

Update on the Mormon pool- the lily clusters had floating light fixtures with bulbs that were shaped to look like fountains. Never noticed that before.

No fountains at the Tower of Light- just a moat. (several pavilions had moats).

Update on Coca-Cola- they had both an outdoor fountain *and* an indoor fountain (in the Taj Mahal exhibit).

7-Up had a nice fountain in the middle of their pavilion dining area.

House of Good Taste "Modern House" had an indoor fountain.

Update on Festival of Gas: bubbler fountains which could also shoot up three or four into the air, *and* a small waterfall.

In the Better Living Center, Culligan had a sort of fountain that made it look like water was spewing out of a faucet that was suspended in midair.

The Masonic Center had outdoor fountains.

Thailand Pavilion had outdoor fountains.

Vatican Pavilion had outdoor fountains.

Mexico Pavilion had outdoor fountains.

United States Pavilion had outdoor fountains.

Japan Pavilion had sort of waterfalls spewing out of their rock wall into the moat / pool.

Traveler's Insurance had some nice fountains under their building, and I believe so did Johnson's Wax.

India had a really cool waterfall effect over their outdoor pools- kind of like an upside down fountain.

Denmark had some fountains in their garden area.

Christian Science had outdoor fountains.

Billy Graham had outdoor fountains.

The Maryland Pavilion had some bubbler fountains.

New England States Pavilion had outdoor fountains.

The Underground Home had a fountain in front of the entrance (above ground).

Sinclair Dinoland had an outdoor waterfall into a pond.

Hall of Science had outdoor fountains.

Confirmation on Ford's Indoor Fountains in the Theme Center in the Wonder Rotunda- some really cool nozzles that apparently spun around.

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...That is...a lot of water features... Wow. Had no idea.

Anything of the main fountains, working or not, that anyone can post is much appreciated. Would love to see Ford's, Chrysler's and the Festival of Gas.

If only photos existed of the control system of the Fountain of the Planets which, I believe, used sound on tape and programming on punched cards. A big step up from the '39 show, which was played live, both music and show, and synchronized using a moving cue sheet system.

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Thank you, sir!

I was examining a close-up of the Astral Fountain and noticed something. I had previously imagined it must have taken a lot of torque to turn the cage. But that, I now see, is only pertinent if the motor is at the top center. What if it wasn't...?

post-5136-0-61360600-1313506106_thumb.jp

I think there is a drive motor visible here, along with its power conduit. Also, at bottom left, on the inner side of the wheel riding on the track, there is a geared wheel. Could another motor be here? Does anyone have additional photos of the cage, close up, in fairly high resolution? It might prove whether there is one or many. But a drive from the bottom near the wheels is much more realistic. The geared wheels may instead mean that one motor on the cage sends power out to multiple sets of wheels using drive shafts and bevel or worm gears.

I also see what might be a horizontal cylinder at far left. The vertical device could, instead, be a pump to bring water UP to the stars, whereas ONLY power comes down from the top; many pumps in the 60s were not submersible, and the pumping impeller and housing sat in the water with a drive shaft leading to a motor out of the water above. There is only one pipe coming from the upper bearing out to the rim, so it's possible that this is just power.

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Welcome Jonas!

I don't profess to have a great deal of knowledge about the various fountains at the '64-'65 Fair, but here are a few links you may (or may not) find useful.

First up, here's a sheet from the Operations Drawings Manual on Bill Cotter's site that has some details about the pump locations:

http://www.worldsfairphotos.com/nywf64/operations-drawings-manual/sheet-37.pdf

And Bill Young's site has a few details about each of the fountains as well:

Astral Fountain - http://www.nywf64.com/astfount01.shtml

Fountain of the Planets - http://www.nywf64.com/poolin01.shtml

Fountain of Progress North - http://www.nywf64.com/nprogfount01.shtml

Fountain of Progress South - http://www.nywf64.com/sprogfount01.shtml

Lunar Fountain - http://www.nywf64.com/lunfount01.shtml

Solar Fountain - http://www.nywf64.com/solfount01.shtml

Main Mall (Fountain of the Continents, Pool of Reflections, & Fountains of the Fairs) - http://www.nywf64.com/mainmall01.shtml

Regarding your question about the "Fountain of the Planet of the Apes" and the "Fountain of the Planet of the Grapes of Wrath" - These two fountains were built after the fair and are not in the same locations as the Fountains of Progress North and South. The Fountain of the Planet of the Apes sits roughly where General Foods Arch #10 sat during the Fair, and the Fountain of the Planet of the Grapes of Wrath sits roughly where GF Arch #9 was located...

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Here's a few glimpses of the machinery for the Astral Fountain:

astral-closeup-1.jpg

astral-closeup-2.jpg

astral-closeup-3.jpg

astral-closeup-4.jpg

The windspeed system is circled.

astral-closeup-5.jpg

And here's a view as they took the fountain apart:

astral-demo.jpg

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Each of those...things...along the rear of the cage at the bottom has a pipe coming up from behind it, which heads forward and connects to the framework. And that listing of pumps confirms it!

See each of those devices "on (the) cage" has a pipe leading from the inner bottom, up, then forward, and attaching to the framework. So each one is a pump, six in all. The motor is on top, pump below, and water is piped up the framework, then delivered down curved pipes to all the stars in each curving row.

Perhaps these also drive the cage, but with this detail confirmed, I'm returning to my old theory of a top drive - and maybe that's why the cylinder at the top is so big. Because the drive motor for the cage is huge, with loads of torque, and has a big gearbox to slow down the output, too. Thus, the conduit running from this cylinder, along one of the top struts, must send power down the cage to the pumps and to the lights in the star nozzles. What a great piece of mechanical work this thing was!

Thanks for pointing out the anemometer, which would have slowed or shut off the pumps in high winds. Interesting that it was IN the fountain, and not on a neighboring building. Thanks for all the photos and info - that pdf also tells me, for example, that there were two pumps for the center ring; in high winds, one may have shut off, leading to the half-height spray photos that show up. It also gives me interesting info such as the Fountain of the Planets having a total of 26 pumps... four of which are in the "permanent cement structure". Can someone PLEASE go out, wade into that lagoon, climb on top of the darned thing and see what's left up there!? Also, the Fountain of the Planets pump list mentions "See DWG. ES-1 for pump locations." Does anyone have a copy of that? A layout plan for the Fountain of the Planets would be just jaw-droppingly amazing!

See? Look, all along the top...

post-5136-0-37791300-1313515077_thumb.jp

NOZZLES! There *should* be four pumps in there and, if they weren't removed or stolen, the top should have (from what I've seen coming from that location in photos of the show and the photo of the mock-up) an outer spray ring, a fleur-de-lis in the center, and possibly more. There would also have been eight light boxes up there originally. Can't someone slog out there on a dry day at low tide, scramble up onto that structure and finally see exactly what's left before, one day, the bulldozers roll in?Also: Those slots near the top are definitely for water from the sprays to drain off the roof. This thing probably held the controls and such.

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Sorry, I couldn't back to you right away- I've been very busy.

Bill already shared the best "pumps and pipes" pictures.

This is one of my favorites. It reveals a lot about the direction of the sprayers coming out of the stars- they all shot to the left to provide an optical illusion that the water was pushing the cage counter-clockwise (the direction it was turning)... but I agree, it was actually being turned by an electric motor, not the jet spray. This picture also shows the light arrangement inside the stars.

03_Astral_Fountain.jpg

Don't know whether this overhead photo is helpful, but I'll share it anyway.

90004641.jpg

How about four fountains in one picture? Of course, inquiring minds want to know how those guys got on the roof of the Vatican Pavilion. :)

09_Vatican_Pavilion.jpg

This view might give you some good detail of the spoke arrangement of the top of the cage.

015_-_Vatican_Pavilion_from_New_York_Sta

This shows how the "spoke" girders attached at the bottom of the motor box. My guess is the column was stationary, and the motor box turned on top of it.

034_-_Astral_Fountain.jpg

Can somebody spell overspray?

034_-_Vatican_Pavilion_and_Fountain_of_t

This is a great photo showing how bad the overspray could get on a windy day. Right up to the front steps of the Pavilion of Paris! Days like this and the previous picture- both 1964- were the reason they installed the anenometer and adjusted the spray velocity accordingly.

64-xx-11-32_Vatican_Pavilion.jpg

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Now that Bill and I have shared these photos, who's up for building a scale working model of the Astral Fountain, complete with sprayers, lights, the works? :) Heck, it would be just as good or better than one of those little rock fountains that people have in their houses to calm their nerves.

In fact, now that I think about it, you could have 'liquid refreshment' spray out of the nozzles to refill the cups of your favorite World's Fair pals the next time they come over to visit. :P Call it the 'Astral Bar'. LOL

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By the way, the cage rotation speed was said to be two feet per second.

The cage was 60 feet tall.

The big central water spray went up to 70 feet- ten feet above the top of the cage.

120 of the stars had sprayer nozzles in them.

When it was being built, the scaffolding was almost as good as the fountain itself! :)

building127.jpg

want some lights from the Astral Fountain?

http://www.brookforge.co.uk/product-uw2006_astral_underwater_lights_fountain.htm

Just kidding- I'm sure there's no relation other than the name.

Be sure to read this:

Some good pump & nozzle detail in this photo:

http://gerrymcgee.smugmug.com/Events/New-York-Worlds-Fair-1964-1965/3843396_UZskW/4/222750777_JgusM#222751228_zYijP-O-LB

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I now see there are two different devices attached to the cage. I think one type is a pump, the other a drive motor. I THINK the vertical ones are the pumps. I had been trying to figure out how light and nozzle were combined, but I now see thanks to the detail shots that the four narrow pipes around each light are the nozzles.

What are these? Circled in yellow. They may or may not be attached to the cage, and they have wires leading to them. They're not water level sensors. They're not fog nozzles. What are they for? In some photos, I can't see them.

post-5136-0-89060200-1313568682_thumb.jp

About the luminaries around the fountain: I assume they had a downlight in the bottom. Did they have lights on the tips of the stars, too, or what? The photo of two lights at a fairground shows the stars basically wrapped with mini light strings.

Build a replica? I'm on - but I'd try to do a small one. First problem is how to make the stars themselves. I'm sure I'm being redundant here, but notice the outer stars each have only half a point and have a pyramidal cap, and the inner ones have full points, with two sections superimposed. And for whoever owns a star, is anything attached in the middle?

Closest thing I've found is this guy: http://www.frankmorrow.com/Products/index.cfm?displayGrouping=4&displayCategory=17&&StartRow=33

That might be able to be bought in quantity, made of aluminum, and then carefully modified by cutting. I can't find any other stamped findings manufacturer making a four-point star, does anyone else have ideas or might these work? These are approximately 2" across.

I figure the top framework can have some vanes on the support struts, and the central water spray pushes them and makes the cage rotate. I'd use pieces of clear monofilament (fishing line) to make the streams from the star nozzles, and would attach some sort of tiny weight to the tip of each to keep them bent downward and make them 'drag' in the pool.

Thank you for the photos, Bill, Randy! If I can help with this idea, let me know! I'm pretty sure I already know how to put together the spray ring for the center, since no one sells custom tiny rings. In larger scale, spray rings are hideously expensive, and typically made of 1 1/2" copper pipe; a 12" diameter ring could easily cost $600. Of course, on the scale I'm thinking, I only need a 4" or so ring.

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Here's something I'm curious about.

We're not sure of the date the Fair Corporation installed the anenometer, but I wonder if they kept daily records of the wind readings at that location, and whether those records might still be in the archives at the NYPL?

If we set up an anenometer today at roughly the same location (the skate park) and took daily readings, I wonder how it would compare? (monthly averages of course)

Might the pavilions lining the street coming off the Meadow Lake Bridge have acted as a 'wind tunnel'- making the wind even more pronounced, much stronger that it would be today without the buildings lining the street?

If so, I wonder if the Astral Fountain was a 'great concept, wrong location', and it would have been better placed somewhere else in the Fairgrounds that was less subject to high winds? I've heard a lot of reports from 1965 visitors that the Astral Fountain was turned off most of the time. Which was too bad, in that it must have been quite a spectacular sight when operating.

Sadly, I can also see why they had to dismantle it when the Fair closed. Without hundreds of Pinkies patrolling the grounds of FMCP, the cage would have looked like a big jungle gym to kids and there would have been injury lawsuits all over the place. And with all those pumps & pipes there is some maintenance cost to think about- ,more than your average fountain. But you'd think some city or municipality somewhere might have been interested in acquiring it to put in the middle of a traffic circle or some suitable location with few kids. In fact, it could have been mounted in a harbor or in the middle of a small lake.

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I now see there are two different devices attached to the cage. I think one type is a pump, the other a drive motor. I THINK the vertical ones are the pumps.

Now we're going back to the wheels being directly driven instead rotated from the top. I liked the driven-from the top theory, albeit with the torque challenge, but we can't ignore the gear near to a wheel that we saw in one of Bill's photos. If they were directly driven at the bottom, then the cyclinder at the top may have simply housed the pivot point that the entire cage swung on.

I had been trying to figure out how light and nozzle were combined, but I now see thanks to the detail shots that the four narrow pipes around each light are the nozzles.

Yes, and in many photos the nozzles are angled 45 degrees to the left (see the night photo). I wonder if maybe they were soft rubber and simply were pulled to the left when the cage was turning?

What are these? Circled in yellow. They may or may not be attached to the cage, and they have wires leading to them. They're not water level sensors. They're not fog nozzles. What are they for? In some photos, I can't see them.

post-5136-0-89060200-1313568682_thumb.jp

I wondered about that too. I have no idea. They look like some kind of sensors, or guides. They can be seen in virtually all of the hundreds of pictures we have of this fountain.

notice the outer stars each have only half a point and have a pyramidal cap, and the inner ones have full points, with two sections superimposed. And for whoever owns a star, is anything attached in the middle?

I can't find any other stamped findings manufacturer making a four-point star, does anyone else have ideas or might these work? These are approximately 2" across.

Gary H owns one of the original stars. There is a picture of it on this board somewhere. It has holes where the spray nozzles once were located, but if I recall right the nozzles themselves are missing. And I think there may be a hole in the middle where the light fixture was located. I'm sure Gary would let you take careful measurements so you could build a smaller one to scale, then replicate it for many small stars.

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What are these? Circled in yellow. They may or may not be attached to the cage, and they have wires leading to them. They're not water level sensors. They're not fog nozzles. What are they for? In some photos, I can't see them.

attachicon.gifastral-closeup-1-noted.JPG

I wondered about that too. I have no idea. They look like some kind of sensors, or guides. They can be seen in virtually all of the hundreds of pictures we have of this fountain.

-----

If they were outside the cage, I would have guessed intrusion sensors to shut down the rotation, but these appear to be inside.

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Another thought: maybe they are a mechanical safety meant to detect anything caught and being dragged by the cage? Can we determine if they rotate with the cage or are fixed?

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That is a good thought - do they sense when someone has climbed in, to shut down the drive motors and pumps? I'd hate to get my foot caught under those wheels, but I'd also bet you'd go for a ride if you stepped into the jets from the center ring.

Does anyone have any detail photos of the pipes & nozzles in the Fountain of the Planets, either from ON the platforms, or from above? Some or other fair website used to have some BIG shots of the fountain running, from above (helicopter?) but they were lost in the HD crash and I can't find them online any more. Nywf64 has some SMALL photos from on-platform, and of the mock-up model, but no big ones. Do blueprints exist, in scanned form?

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Re: pumps & pipes shots of Fountain of the Planets... I don't have access to my storage hard drive here at the office; will have to check late tonight after I get home. I know we have a topic here on the board with lots of overhead photos, including the reloading foot ramp, for which they lowered the water level each day when it was re-loading time (fireworks).

And we never got any answer concerning the 'mystery rowboat' which appeared tied up to the edge of the pool area (near G.E.) in one photo. I believe one of the pre-Fair Progress Reports has some great photos of the Pool of Industry after the exterior walls were built, but with the pool still dry, showing the path of the Flushing River. They'd built a temporary dirt road out to the middle so that concrete trucks could deliver their load directly out to the 'islands' that were being built. Those 'construction shots' might reveal something about the Fountain plumbing.

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More Astral Fountain trivia.

The principal designer of the Astral Fountain was J.S. Hamel.

Here's what some of the Disney history websites say about J.S. Hamel:

J. S. Hamel was a civil and electrical engineer hired by Walt to help build Disneyland. His projects include Schweitzer Falls of the Jungle Cruise.

Alastair Dallas: Jacob Samuel "Sam" Hamel was another unsung genius. All the water in the park, the system of pipes and sluicegates that keep the water moving and fresh, was his purview. He and Joe Fowler invented the submarine ride, according to the patent. Hamel had a consulting mechanical and electrical engineering practice and Disneyland was just one client. I understand that Walt contacted General Electric, which had innovated in the design of the 1939 World's Fair, regarding Disneyland and they declined but recommended Hamel.

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<br><br>Lighting - The show used light boxes with sliding, curved color filters, but I don't really know what colors were available; I assume they used red, blue and green for additive mixing, and either had a blackout douser or could be switched off in groups. The Lagoon of Nations show here in '39 used light boxes with both a warm lamp and a cool lamp to get the most out of all colors, and these had a hexagonal, rotating color box around each set of lights, giving red, blue, green, yellow, clear/white or blackout.

A detailed article on lighting is here:

http://www.bretl.com...ing%20index.htm

Here's the page showing the filters used

http://www.bretl.com...mages/lb096.jpg

Edit: they don't say, but it's obvious from the choice of colors that they used only one at a time in each unit. The way the filters are nested, they might have considered using yellow, magenta, and cyan to do subtractive color mixing, but apparently they did not consider mixing colors in each unit.

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I remember reading somewhere that the rubber wheels on the cage of the Astral Fountain wore out rather quickly and had to be replaced at least once during the fairs first season.

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What a gold mine, Wayne!! Thank you! Let's see...

So I DID see sparkles on the light splash rings... but they were tiny lights?? And ALL of them had that at one time, or just on the Lunar Fountain?

The details on the moving filter boxes show exactly how they worked, which is wonderful. But you CAN mix colors with R-G-B-Y, it's simply not as easy. RB would be a deep violet, RY would be orange, GB would be a sea-green, GY would be yellow-green... They had to have done *some* color mixing.

Astral Fountain: Apparently, ALL the stars had lights? Those pyramidal covers were lights, too? Do any other photos show this? I'm not sure I can build something THAT complicated. I'm not a pro, just a tinkerer.

Great info on Lunar: the dome DID have flicker lights in it! And I imagine the lights around the base of the dome, on that ring, were the same thing. That must have been amazing. Interesting that the photo which description mentions two water effects has the upper one shut off...!

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