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Randy Treadway

More Escorter detail

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Playin' with my new hi-rez film scanner (gave myself an early Christmas present toy ), re-shooting some old slides at 4000dpi to see what I can find---

This one turned up more detail than was previously readable in the "driver's area" of this Escorter.

We can now read what looks like DuKane on that box on the floorboard to the left of the driver. I did a quick Google search and came up with Dukane Corporation, which among other things makes communications equipment AND timers- either of which could have been standard Escorter taxi equipment.

Is that a change belt the driver is wearing?

Escortertail.jpg

Randy

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What's the orange and tan deal to his right?

The DuKane thing looks like a battery.

[This message has been edited by DougSeed (edited 12-18-2003).]

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"Is that a change belt the driver is wearing?"

----------------------------

It looks like the change dispenser (quarters only) that I carried when I drove the rapid transit bus.

LL

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Mike, it appears that you win the guess contest this time!

I was e-mailed today by a fellow who just discovered PTU and registered yesterday with the moniker Airking.

He acquired a collection of Greyhound equipment items which includes one of these Dukane boxes from an Escorter, and he apparently discovered PTU by searching for Dukane and finding this topic! (as Marc noted recently, there are a LOT of web search engines constantly robot-reviewing PTU and indexing it for all kinds of key words- I'd guess Dukane is now one of them!)

Anyway- here is Airking's description, followed by his pictures (being new he didn't know how to link them, so I offered to do the linking for him).

Hi, Randy. Noticed your slide enlargement of the Driver on the Escorter with the Dukane box on the left. I believe it's the exact box for the Go-Greyhound theme song. I actually own the horn-box and it's supposed to be working. Still have to test it. Do you want to see pictures of it? It's supposed to be a rare item.

*Also, I actually just picked up a neat Stanchion from the '39 World's Fair. 12" base. I'd love to get another one!

------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi, Randy. I got the box from a retired Greyhound Bus Driver. 30 years of service, etc. He had a lifetime collection of stuff. I bought some bus trim, a coin fare machine, a WINDOW from the driver's area and a cool chrome fire extinguisher.

It's about a foot by 9.5" tall more or less...

***The driver told me he had it serviced and it should work. It's very clean inside and doesn't appear to be missing anything. My best guess is that the RECTANGULAR piece of plastic moves side to side, there's a curved piece of metal that runs along a circular track when that piece moves...might generate the sound? The pics are very clear, I'm sure you guys can figure it out. I'd be happy to see if it works and get it recorded to disc or tape at least.

Do any of you technical experts out there care to study these photos and explain to Airking how the horn music in his Dukane box was recorded? Might it be kind of like a metal player piano cylinder?

Dukane01.jpg

Dukane02.jpg

Dukane03.jpg

Dukane04.jpg

Dukane05.jpg

Dukane06.jpg

Dukane07.jpg

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Looks like you could try connecting a speaker to the output leads, power to that section - and keep the fingers crossed! Might also see if anyone at Dukane can help:

<a href="http://www.dukane.com/csd/comm/default.htm" target="_blank">http://www.dukane.com/csd/comm/default.htm</a>

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Seems to be an early electronic music-box type device. Looking at one of the closeups showing the rotor arm (the brown rectangle with the two brass-colored rivets), we see that it appears to be attached to a motor. You can see four little contact arms on the trailing edge of the rotor arm at the 10 o'clock position, presumably to switch current to the flat wires underneath. Note that these flat wires ultimately descend to 10 wires at the bottom of the PC board. If each of these 10 wires represents a different tone, you can see by inspection what the combinations are as the arm sweeps through 360 degrees of arc. Maybe someone with a little more musical knowledge can predict what the individual tones would be, and thus recreate the tune.

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Bradd it looks like the brown arm rotated clockwise, dragging the four contacts. Since the circuit board's metallic surface patterns (which the contacts were dragged over) are close together- not much space between, but in different lengths, I assume the arm rotated at a constant rate.

The inner most of the four contacts, when rotated, appears to stay connected electrically throughout almost the entire 360 degrees- and it has a dedicated 'track' all to itself.

That might mean that it is the master 'return' connection- to complete the electrical circuit.

That means that there are three contacts left which theoretically could produce 3-part harmony, or a 2 or 3 part 'blend' sound through the horn.

And the 10 circuits on the board? Well, one might be that return circuit. That leaves 9.

Humming the Greyhound jingle to myself, I only count 6 different notes. (of course my musical proclivity is limited to 3 years of elementary school piano lessons and 3rd grade choir- )

Might the Escorter version of the jingle have been preceded or succeeded by any random horn notes (beep beeps) that would add 3 more notes to the basic 6? Or maybe extra circuits were installed to provide harmony (multiple notes at the same time) or a "blend" tone?

Since there appear to be 3 dragged contacts, and 9 distinct circuits, it means you could have LOTS of combinations of 2 and combinations of 3 besides the 9 single circuits.

One of you mathematicians will have to figure out the theoretical unique permutations- it's something LESS than 9+(3*9)+(9 cubed), of course, because some of those will yield duplicate combinations.

There's WAY less combinations actually printed on the circuit board anyway.

This is higher tech than a metal 'player piano' type of cylinder in that it used electrical circuit contacts, but still pretty primitive with that rotating mechanical arm!

It would be intriguing to see a video of the mechanism in action as the horn played the jingle.

I guess I missed this posting from Park Bench last year.

But I'm not sure if it's on the current playlist for internet K2US:

*******************************************************

Hear a brief "sound bite" of a Greyhound Escorter "Go Greyhound - and leave the driving to us!" horn as recorded in the Industrial area. It's been placed after the last cut (Industrial area) of the Johnny Carson album and before The Broadway Show (the NYWF 'fountain music').

Enjoy!

Still more to come... http://www.live365.com/stations/184214

*******************************************************

Bench can you help us out?

Just for comparison, here's a couple of 1982 full vocalization & orchestration versions (RealAudio format) of the same Greyhound advertising jingle that was played out of the comparitively primitive horn box in those Escorters in 1964....

Click the dogGreyhound_dog.jpg

Click the dogGreyhound_dog.jpg

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<!--coloro:blue--><span style="color:blue"><!--/coloro-->Didn't I hear version 2 advertised on one of those compilation albums from Ronco? Something to do with romance and flowers? Rather soulful for a bus jingle.

Rose (whose probably up way too late.)<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

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DuKane made audio-visual equipment, used to see the name in schools everywhere.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mike,

You are right! As a former teacher in the age preceeding the VCR, I saw the Dukane name primarily on filmstrip projetctors. We never asked for them as a 'filmstrip projector', but always as a 'Dukane'.

Liz

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This is basically an audio oscillator with a clock motor using contact wipers on a printed circuitboard to change the values of the r/c.As the clock motor moves, it selects different values of capacitance resulting in a different sound by changing the r/c value of the audio circuit.There is a also a calibration pot soldered to the board for fine tuning of the audio oscillator.The samething can be done using a cam with micro switches riding on it making it a more reliable device.

Note the carbon film resistor soldered to the bottom of the main pc board.Seems like a recent modification.Carbon film resitors didnt exsist back then.

Regards,Dave

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There seem to be 2 PC boards; the one under the wiper and another running the long axis of the box. The longer PC board appears to have 7 fastener terminals along the bottom edge. Are these the trim pots you were talking about, GS? That would imply 7 tones. You would then calculate combinations Randy, not permutations, but of course I can't remember how to do it (is it 7-factorial?).

ps: what does a carbon film resistor look like? I can't find it...

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The outer of the three circular "tracks" on the wiper section in the first photos definitely appears to be the "Go Greyhound... and leave the driving to us" trigger.

If you count the sections (clockwise) and the length of each, you'll see that they match up perfectly to the cadence of the jingle.

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Just noticed a tiny ring and wiper near the rotor's post. Must be the current source that's being switched...

Well yes, except that the printed circuit (if that's what it is) seems to break just to the right, and not lead anywhere.

The innermost of the four primary 'dragged contacts', on the other hand, seems to track to that printed circuit that goes all the way around with only one short break, which leads to circuit #9, as you would count them across the bottom of the circuit board. Since that printed circuit continues to provide a contact even as the arm was rotating across the "top" of the circle, my guess is that that is the current source.

This also leads to a question-

was the horn jingle triggered by the driver, or did it constantly play (with breaks of just a few seconds as the mechanical arm kept rotating through it's full 360 degree sweep) as long as the Escorter was moving?

Kind of like a garbage truck has a loud warning beeper that is set to constantly beep as long as the transmission is in reverse and the truck is backing up, with limited driver visibility. Although that's a horrible comparison!

Another observation-

Doug correctly identified the outermost circuit as corresponding to the Greyhound jingle in cadence.

So what does that leave the circuits for just inside of that one? A mystery-

Also, think from a driver standpoint- what if somebody jumps in his way and he has to blow a horn for REAL-not just a jingle. It wouldn't make sense to install a whole separate horn for that. Would one of these circuits- maybe the "all the way around one" be provided for a dedicated, always available circuit to be completed whenever the driver hit his horn button, with the button triggering that dedicated circuit? Such a true warning horn, of course, only needs one tone, not multiple, so only one of these circuits would be needed.

Maybe Larry, our resident driver, could answer a couple of these questions from the driver standpoint, if his Glide-a-Ride unit had a Dukane system that was identical to the Escorter's equipment.

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Might the "hidden circuit board" be an amplifier, so that this unit could be connected directly to speakers which need not carry their own separate power source?

One other note- if this was connected to an on-board battery for power, I'd be nervous about connecting it to household current to check it out, for fear I'd fry the 40-year old board. As Bill suggested, perhaps Dukane (if they're still in St. Charles, a suburb of St. Louis) could supply the amps or wattage or whatever that the board is rated for, given that the model number is clearly visible.

Come to think of it, I'm slated for a business trip to St. Louis the last week of this month-

Is that what 12 - 14.5V 2A-DC on the outside of the box means?

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Yes, Randy, that means you need a power source in the range of 12 to 14.5 volts and at 2 amps. Gee, sounds just like a car battery to me - what a coincidence!

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Hello, I'm Mathew...the guy who owns the Dukane horn box. This sure is a neat place to post questions. Everyone is very helpful. I appreciate the 'jingle' clips from TV. Those were fun!!!

I do like the possibility of the dedicated horn for regular honking situations. That way I wouldn't have to add a 4th horn under the hood. (pic attached of the vehicle this "jingle" will soon eminate from!!!) Almost as big as a Greyhound bus?

Some additional info. There is a thin brown wire coming out near the 2A fuse holder. On this wire is a piece of masking tape that's written "TO SWITCH FOR LIGHT". Maybe the jingle sounded only when the driver hit a switch, or was this a shutoff switch for whenever the driver "got sick of" the jingle??

I'd like to thank everyone for their feedback and I'll try my best to fire up this baby and record the jingle for all to hear.

Also, there's a major Greyhound Museum somewhere in the midwest that has the same Dukane box. I bet theirs is hooked up and ready to play in case anyone wants to visit one in person.

I'd also like to add that I never would have found this site if the word DUKANE wasn't posted by Randy. And that wouldn't have happened if he didn't buy that 4000 dpi slide scanner last Christmas. And of course we had to wait 30 years for the bus driver to retire to sell me the box!!

What's even funnier is I didn't buy the Dukane box straight from the retired driver. I had to buy it from the person who outbid me the $11k for the total collection. I was there the day the entire bus collection was loaded into 2 trucks. I was helping with the loading!!! Guess it's "everything in due time".

post-3769-1207360956_thumb.jpg

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There seem to be 2 PC boards; the one under the wiper and another running the long axis of the box. The longer PC board appears to have 7 fastener terminals along the bottom edge. Are these the trim pots you were talking about, GS? That would imply 7 tones. You would then calculate combinations Randy, not permutations, but of course I can't remember how to do it (is it 7-factorial?).

ps: what does a carbon film resistor look like? I can't find it...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes these are military spec locking trim pots.There are seven of them.If you look closely ,you can see where each of the three legs are soldered to the circuit board.They are definitely potentiometers.By using an audio frequency counter,you would be able to calibrate each tone by adjusting each trim pot.There is another trim pot which is non locking also soldered to the mainboard.Its possible it could be used to control the volume.Im not sure if the two transistors in the to5 cases are being used as a class b pushpull amp ,or used as part of the oscillator circuit.If I had a schematic..I could tell you alot more.

Regards,Dave

ps: This is the board with the carbon film resistor I was refering to.Its just to the above left of the etching number 218-45

Dukane09.jpg

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Someone else was looking for a schematic of one of these things back in 1996. I wrote to the guy but the mail bounced right back, so the e-mail address is no good (how many are after 8 years???) Too bad the factory didn't work out for him though.

From: oscar olson (mailto:104316.736@CompuServe.COM)

Subject: schematic for DuKane musical horn

This is the only article in this thread

View: Original Format

Newsgroups: sci.electronics.repair

Date: 1996/06/25

Wanted schematic for DuKane musical horn model 15A191.

Factory Repair facility does not have as is too old.

Please answerby email.

--

oscaro

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In my opinion, you guys have it figured out.

Audio ocillators for the tones, a couple of power transistors for audio amplification, and a pcb mechanical timer. How cool!

That timer looks very similar to units you'd see in the old EM pinball machines.

That inner trace would be the motor keep-alive, and the outer the "rhythm".

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Dave,

Am I correct the the straight solder lines with hard angle curves indicate that this circuit was laid out with tape on acetate or some other substrate then screen printed onto the base circuit board?

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