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Coronation Scot

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About Coronation Scot

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    Derbyshire, UK
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    Coronation Scot streamliner locomotive from England
  1. Coronation Scot, LMS 6220, locomotive from England

    Cheers Barry, I visited Tyseley before the doors were fitted, and had a good chat with Bob. And also at the NRM during a meeting with the FNRM after completion. Tender cowlings were removed in 1943, and the tender was swapped in 1945 to the one it's fitted to today.
  2. Coronation Scot, LMS 6220, locomotive from England

    Hi Chris, I can confirm that it is as you have pointed out. Coronation Scot was taken to the USA in 1939. And if you visit the National Railway Museum, in York, you will be able to see the very same loco, but in her true identity, LMS 6229 Duchess of Hamilton. Originally she was built in 1938 and came out of Crewe in Shop Grey with white stripes and went into service for a very short while (see attached photos), before heading back to Crewe to receive her Crimson Lake paint, golden stripes, headlamp, bell (fitted at Euston), buckeye coupling, and her re-naming and numbering to LMS 6220 Coronation. That is when your relative would have been working on her, in the winter of 1938 at Crewe. (The real Coronation was of course a blue streamliner and during the swap over she became a blue LMS 6229 Duchess of Hamilton and stayed in the UK!!!). Fred Bishop was the original driver on the USA tour but he became ill and Robin Riddles took over. ** NOTE: PHOTO DELETED AT REQUEST OF THE COPYRIGHT HOLDER 3/5/15 ** Originally, the wheel rims, gear, and buffers were bright burnished, and by the second season, in 1940, my photos collection shows white paint has been added, probably to mask the rust. White wheel rims weren't really a British thing. There is a photo of F.A. Soden, foreman from the erecting shops, (in trench coat and hat), plate 101, page 75 of Edward Talbot's book: The Coronation Scot, ISBN 0-95427878-1-2. It shows the loco at Euston prior to the USA farewell ceremony. And F.W Soden, assistant erecting shop foreman did go to America with Fred Bishop (Driver), John McKinnon (Fireman), Robert A. Riddles (M&E Eng). I do have a limited edition signed Eric Bottomley print of the red LMS 6220 Coronation & The Royal Blue. Slight errors painted are: cab roof should be red, not black; nameplate should be navy background, not red; oval builder's plate should be red, not black; and front flying lamps should be red, not black. My picture is about a metre wide. PM me if you have any photos or copies etc that we might be able to discuss or deal on, and you can have my email address. (There was an earlier LMS USA loco tour and that was in 1933, with the "Royal Scot", LMS 6100. That was for a fair in Chicago. Different loco. Not a streamliner. Both locos survived and we have the late Sir Billy Butlin to thank for that!) Regards, Coronation Scot, Derby, UK
  3. Coronation Scot, LMS 6220, locomotive from England

    Bump! New edits [in brackets] added to my old posts, numbers #4 and #9, - to keep things "up-to-date". New URL links added within my edits, linking to photos of the re-streamlined loco, now completed. Looks great - in glorious colour, for you all to see :D And if anyone has further photos etc., from back in the day, 1939-42, of this loco in the USA, do get in touch please! Regards, Coronation Scot, Derby, UK.
  4. Coronation Scot, LMS 6220, locomotive from England

    PM sent Simon. Paul.
  5. Coronation Scot, LMS 6220, locomotive from England

    Hi Eric. If this is not in the way of your current deadlines, I would really be interested to see your colour images of the 'Coronation Scot' loco. (And any others from Bill too! Those last ones were great). If there are any prints/duplicates/negs/slides etc you might wish to sell, you can PM me. I've just acquired 7 negs of the 1939-40 NYWF and apart from the one with the Coronation loco on it, the other six I might well sell or part with them in a deal. Copyright goes with them too. Left, 2nd down, is the loco neg I'm keeping. Each negative is approx 1-1/2" x 2-1/2" and were stored in separate, individual negative envelopes. Overall, Wide angle View - Perisphere and Trylon in background Overall view of trains "Railroads at Work" (Sign in background reads "Coronation Scot"?) Communications Building (with large art nouveau mural on entire side of building) Wide view of the British Pavilion? (with Italia in background) Closeup view of Perisphere and Helicline with - Goodrich building in background High angle view of crowd and front of Welcome Center? Street scene - walking under an arch Cheers, Paul, UK.
  6. 1940 NYWF Map

    Here's another 1940 NYWF map I just received this week: Railroads on Parade. (the blur is just 2 layers because it was scanned in 2 halves). The red loco "LMS 6220 Coronation", as in my avatar, was on the far left of the map, in the bottom lefthand corner, with 8 carriages.
  7. 1940 NYWF Map

    I found these 2 aerial photos in a search result from an auction site. Can't remember where, but both photos sold. Hope no one minds me adding them here, for use with the map.
  8. Coronation Scot, LMS 6220, locomotive from England

    Thanks Eric. I just knew I'd find the right people to ask on this forum. I'll look forward to see your scans when you have more time on your hands. Kind regards, Paul.
  9. Coronation Scot, LMS 6220, locomotive from England

    British humour! Background: Fans in the UK, at football games have long had a tradition of eating meat pies at half-time. On occasion there are not enough pies to go round and so any player looking a little overweight gets catcalled with the question "Who ate all the pies?". We can say it about anyone who's a fatty - it's not just reserved for football matches these days. Hence on the sign it said "Weight on Drivers = 150304 lbs"... so I thought it funny, having a double meaning of either the driving wheels, or the men who drove the loco!
  10. Coronation Scot, LMS 6220, locomotive from England

    Thanks Bill for those excellent photos. I haven't seen these before. Mostly I just find people posing at the front of the loco and the photos are often tiny! By 1940, into the second season of the Fair, I have noticed that the loco has had certain parts painted white, such as the oval buffers and wheel rims. I guess it was rusting! Looks a bit gash painted white and not a practice done in England, although in Scotland they have been known to paint buffers, smokebox hinges and numberplate surrounds white or silver! The sign is very helpful and a great close up photo. "Width of track as in America." To me, that means it is the same gauge. It's 'Standard Gauge' at 4' 8" and 1/2" which is the same for both countries. The Maximum speed attained at 114 mph... well that wasn't with this particular loco, it was with the original blue LMS Coronation 6220 back in England. During her World record breaking run on 29th June 1937, that loco did get up to 114 mph, but took the bend too fast into Crewe station and all the cutlery in the Kitchen Car went flying! It only held the World speed record for a steam engine briefly and by 1938, the LNER's 4468 Mallard beat it, at 126mph and that record still stands today. If you look in the top lefthand corner of the 2nd photo, near the woman's shoe, there is painted on the loco 7P. That is the a haulage capacity classification of 7 and P is for passenger loco. Later it was amended to 8P. I like the part on the sign which says "Weight on Drivers = 150304 lbs"... who ate all the pies!!
  11. Coronation Scot, LMS 6220, locomotive from England

    The NYWF items I have, are the red and the blue versions on the Coronation Scot brochure. They look identical in design, but the blue one is prior to the exhibition. There was a second blue brochure issued with an aeroplane on the front (see photo). I think this was for the second season i.e. 1940. I don't have this copy yet. [edit: I now have all 3 versions in my collection.] And I have seen a NYWF diner childrens menu with pictures of locos inside it. Paul.
  12. Coronation Scot, LMS 6220, locomotive from England

    Hi Randy, A1) Standard Gauge. I'm certain that it is a myth that there are differences in gauge size between US and UK railways. Even my Dad thought the same as you did and he worked in the British Rail Derby Carriage & Wagon workshops for over 30+ years! There have been several UK to USA loco visits over the years. Great Britain sent over locos as early as 1893. The LMS sent over 6100 'Royal Scot' for the 1933 Chigago expo; The Great Western Railway sent over 6000 'King George V'; and Alan Pegler sent over his London & North Eastern Railway 4472 'Flying Scotsman' in 1969. The Pullman carriage company sent Pullman coach kits from USA to Derby, UK, for the Midland Railway to assemble. And at the turn of the century, 1899-1900, the Midland Railway also imported eighty 2-6-0 locos from America because of a national loco shortage in England. The USA companies supplying these were Baldwins and the Schenectady Loco Co. I have seen a photo of these being assembled in the open air in front of the Derby loco works! So I guess the standard gauge of 4' 8" and a half, was widespread thanks to things like the export of steam railways from Great Britain into the old 'Empire' and neighbouring markets. I have seen on a TV show that the reason for the 4' 8" and a half gauge was because it was the width of the ruts left in the roads by the Romans' horse carts in Britain. Not sure on that one. But the first steam engine to ever run on rails was in 1804 at Pen-y-Darren by Richard Trevithick. (Well before Stephenson's 'Rocket' of 1829!). I can't find what gauge the Trevithick loco used though. A2) I believe the loco you are thinking about, for the 1939 Royal visit to Canada, was the Canadian National Railways U-4-a class 4-8-4 Northern 6400. Preserved here. This isn't the loco I am researching. Cheers, Paul.
  13. Coronation Scot, LMS 6220, locomotive from England

    Some pics from the B & O staff magazine. Landing in 1939 and the 'Officers Mess' in 1943.
  14. Coronation Scot, LMS 6220, locomotive from England

    Hi Bill. Thanks for replying so quickly. Hope you don't mind me using that 2nd photo. I can delete it if there are any copyright issues. Loco info: It was part of the Princess Coronation class of 38 locos which first came out to celebrate King George VI's coronation of 1937. The first 5 locos built were painted blue with silver stripes. The route they travelled was from Euston, London to Glasgow, Scotland. This service was called the 'Coronation Scot'. Then later in 1938 they also built more, some were red streamlined and others were red non-streamlined. Only the blue streamliners had matching striped carriages, other than this red one which visited the 1939-40 NYWF. The loco was built at Crewe, England 7 Sept 1938 for the London Midland & Scottish Railway and referred to as 'the american engine'. Cost £9732 engine and £1570 tender. It was originally called "Duchess of Hamilton" and numbered 6229. It came out of the works in grey primer for a very short while for testing and then returned to Crewe to be painted red and to take the place of the real "Coronation" number 6220 (built 1937 which was actually blue with silver stripes). The LMS normally used crimson lake red for their locos anyway and felt it was better for publicity to send a red loco to the 1939 NYWF. And so both locos swapped name plates and numbers for a few years! The 8 carriages were built in Derby, England at the LMS Carriage & Wagon workshops. To comply with US railroad laws, the loco was fitted with a huge headlamp and brass bell, also brackets for side-lamps too, and the claw coupling. None of the other LMS streamliners had these features. The train first made a 3121 mile tour of the US, hosted by the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad, before being exhibited at the NYWF. I have only found 2 [edit: 5 photos] colour views of 6220 at the NYWF. It is believed that the 'Coronation' nameplate it used was still painted dark blue background with chrome edging and lettering. [edit: Having checked 2 photos in colour, and zoomed in, I can now confirm that the background was navy blue.] The loco stayed in the USA during the war until 1942 because of the threat of U-boat attacks in the Atlantic. The carriages remained until 1946. After the war, when it returned to England it swapped nameplates and numbers back again (6220 now 6229) and the streamlining was removed on 10 Jan 1948. British Railways were then formed in 1948 and 6229 now became 46229 by 3 July 1948. Officially retired on 15 Feb 1964 having covered 1,454,892 miles. Purchased by Sir Billy Butlin who displayed it as a static exhibit at his Minehead holiday camp. Then he offered the loco on loan to the National Railway Museum in York, where it was later purchased and brought back to mainline running condition. http://www.nrm.org.uk/collections/loco/duchess.asp Currently being re-clad at Tyesley, Birmingham. See photos. But due to a shortage in steel on the world market, the project is delayed I have been told. The loco re-cladding has now been completed and the "Duchess of Hamilton" LMS number 6229 is now on display at the National Railway Museum in York, England. Photos can be found at this link: http://www.vintagetrains.co.uk/tlw_6229.htm Hope that explains a bit more about it. Any further info, I'll do my best! I would be very interested to hear if anyone has colour film of this captured on any DVD - there's so many colour films of the NYWF I'm sure some rich American with a cine-camera in 1939 must have filmed at bit somewhere! Cheers, Paul.
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